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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer (Demon the Descent)

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  • Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
    As a demon, can I cure a degenerative disease by Pacting for it, and then just never patching that element into one of my Covers, or sticking it on a Facade or burn Cover?
    I wouldn't allow a demonic pact to "remove from play" an identifier by bargaining for it without putting it anywhere. At my table, it doesn't come off the pactee until it goes onto a Cover.
    I wouldn't allow identifiers to be pasted onto a facade either. A facade is borrowed, not owned, and it's too thin a material to work with.

    Patch it onto a Cover you intend to burn anyway? I'd allow it.

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    • Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
      As a demon, can I cure a degenerative disease by Pacting for it, and then just never patching that element into one of my Covers, or sticking it on a Facade or burn Cover?
      A demon can make a pact with a homeless person giving them riches in return for the love of a childhood sweetheart - the demon doesn't have to take on their poverty or homelessness.

      A demon can give an ugly person the Merit "Striking Looks" in return for their "loss of a child" experience, without having to take on the human's ugly features.

      So I would think that a demon can make a pact giving someone the Merit "Hardy" or "Robust" without taking on the human's illness.

      Of course, YMMV.

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      • Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post

        I wouldn't allow a demonic pact to "remove from play" an identifier by bargaining for it without putting it anywhere. At my table, it doesn't come off the pactee until it goes onto a Cover.
        I wouldn't allow identifiers to be pasted onto a facade either. A facade is borrowed, not owned, and it's too thin a material to work with.

        Patch it onto a Cover you intend to burn anyway? I'd allow it.

        I've made an NPC, The Kindly One, who does this,... and gives the cancer-striken patch jobs to demons in need of an emergency Cover, Never could work them into a book but always wanted to


        Onyx Path Freelancer: Demon Storyteller's Guide, Dark Eras, Night Horrors: Enemy Action
        Storyteller's Guide Extra Material
        After the Fall: Bonus Material

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        • What would the God-Machine do To keep a Demon-Blooded Mage Character with a Completed Cipher.

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          • Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
            What would the God-Machine do To keep a Demon-Blooded Mage Character with a Completed Cipher.
            Whatever amount of effort and resources produce a net benefit in exchange for keeping the sorcerous sleeper agent active, no more and no less.

            If that's not a very useful answer, it's because this question is extremely hard to answer in the abstract. What actual decisions is it weighing against each other?

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            • Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
              What would the God-Machine do To keep a Demon-Blooded Mage Character with a Completed Cipher.
              Nothing, because such a character can’t exist by default. Either Awakening would obliviate the Demon-Blooded minor template or such a character simply can’t Awaken. Given that stigmatics can’t Awaken (Signs of Sorcery p. 129), I’d be inclined towards the latter. Such a character could exist via Storyteller fiat, but that would make them so rare and unique that the God-Machine’s response would be equally unique.
              Last edited by Second Chances; 10-19-2019, 11:29 AM.


              Freelancer (He/His Pronouns): CofD - Dark Eras 2, Kith and Kin, Mummy 2e, Oak Ash and Thorn; Scion - Mysteries of the World

              CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (TBA) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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              • Isn't there already a Stigmatic Mage, though?


                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                • Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                  Isn't there already a Stigmatic Mage, though?
                  There's a mage who used to be stigmatic, which is not actually revelatory about the lore.


                  Resident Lore-Hound
                  Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                  • If a demon with a male cover obtain a son via pact from a man (the father), can he patch it into his cover with him as the fater an the cover wife as the mother?
                    Or he need to make a pact also with the true mother? What if she has died?
                    Last edited by Neos01; 10-24-2019, 09:04 AM.

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                    • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                      If a demon with a male cover obtain a son via pact from a man (the father), can he patch it into his cover with him as the fater an the cover wife as the mother?
                      Or he need to make a pact also with the true mother? What if she has died?
                      He'd need to pact with the biological mom to gain access to that component. The Father can Pact away their relationship to the Son, but not affect others' relationships to the Son - they have no claim over those.

                      Instead, it will have happened that the original mother had a fling with the Cover, probably "obviously" left unsaid all this time. Even if wildly varying genetics leaves the situation questionable. That's just a potential red-flag that could be investigated.


                      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                      • Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

                        He'd need to pact with the biological mom to gain access to that component. The Father can Pact away their relationship to the Son, but not affect others' relationships to the Son - they have no claim over those.

                        Instead, it will have happened that the original mother had a fling with the Cover, probably "obviously" left unsaid all this time. Even if wildly varying genetics leaves the situation questionable. That's just a potential red-flag that could be investigated.
                        This could be a good explaination, thanks

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                        • Can Angels detect Demons in some way? I know Plugged In mentions they don’t have to spoof an Angel but it’s not immediately clear when that would be necessary.

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                          • Originally posted by Therian View Post
                            Can Angels detect Demons in some way? I know Plugged In mentions they don’t have to spoof an Angel but it’s not immediately clear when that would be necessary.
                            Spoofing lets you register as the thing that your Cover is to supernatural scrutiny, whether that's directly or by implication. Angels don't have a consistent means of detecting Aether like demons and cryptids do, but demonic form powers like Aura Sight come from angelic powers like Numina and more prosaic sources of information — Plugged In makes the note that you don't have to spoof angels in the same sentence where it points out that you can't because you register as an angel to them.


                            Resident Lore-Hound
                            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                            • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                              Spoofing lets you register as the thing that your Cover is to supernatural scrutiny, whether that's directly or by implication. Angels don't have a consistent means of detecting Aether like demons and cryptids do, but demonic form powers like Aura Sight come from angelic powers like Numina and more prosaic sources of information — Plugged In makes the note that you don't have to spoof angels in the same sentence where it points out that you can't because you register as an angel to them.
                              I get the part about why you don’t register at as angel to them, but it’s also presented as the Good News, which implies it might be normally an issue. Am I missing a numina somewhere that allows supernatural detection?

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                              • Originally posted by Therian View Post
                                I get the part about why you don’t register at as angel to them, but it’s also presented as the Good News, which implies it might be normally an issue. Am I missing a numina somewhere that allows supernatural detection?
                                There is no prewritten Numen that accomplishes the thing that a demonic form power establishes there are angels explicitly built with among the explicit diversity of powers angels can be built to have as Numina that might trigger the demonic ability to pass for human that specifically can be made to stop working against angels, no. This is not the same thing as there being no room for such a Numen to exist in the setting despite its being directly implied.

                                Sense the Angelic works on the same principles that Plugged In's recognition alludes to and those aren't given mechanical emphasis, either. This is literally as simple as "there's an angel with a Numen that works like the Aura Sight form power" or "there's an angel that counts how many humans pass through a given intersection." The mechanics of making a Numen aren't complicated enough to put space into every conceivable thing an angel could have as a discrete ability, because that is a list that goes on basically forever.
                                Last edited by Satchel; 11-04-2019, 10:04 PM.


                                Resident Lore-Hound
                                Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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