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  • Originally posted by DontEatRawHagis View Post
    What is the benefit of the Demon Car exploit? It just seems like Demon Form with more steps.

    Edit: Also it mentions Structure instead of Health for the Demon, but I don’t see why that would be.
    Demon Car is amazing. It is still a Vehicle, which lets you engage in some unforeseen shenanigans (Van with Data Form to Trojan Horse your way into anyplace with a data connection). It lets you play around with Demonic Form Abilities you don't have, too.

    And, of course, it is a key component to a Demonic Voltron Lambda.


    Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
    Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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    • is there an appropriate place in this forum to list an online game looking for players?

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      • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
        is there an appropriate place in this forum to list an online game looking for players?
        I don’t usually solicit for online games, but there is a LFG subreddit which can be useful, as well as the White Wolf subreddit.

        My suggestion is to spread the net wide as you can: Roll20 Forums, LFG subreddit, White Wolf subreddit, here, etc...

        It’s hard to players for non-Dungeons and Dragons games. Because you are relying on a niche group of players who are interested in seeing you post in the short window that it is viewable.

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        • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
          is there an appropriate place in this forum to list an online game looking for players?
          Front page of the forums.


          Resident Lore-Hound
          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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          • Here's a question: a player gets a bonus to their Compromise roll for every Demonic Form not invoked. If a player takes five dots of Terrible Form, which gives them five additional Forms, and then uses one of their Form abilities, do you think that they should get five extra dice for their Compromise roll?

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            • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
              Here's a question: a player gets a bonus to their Compromise roll for every Demonic Form not invoked. If a player takes five dots of Terrible Form, which gives them five additional Forms, and then uses one of their Form abilities, do you think that they should get five extra dice for their Compromise roll?
              With the caveat that there's still an express limit on the net bonus to the roll, yes. (Also with the caveat that Terrible Form only goes up to four dots — if you've got High Tolerance and have incorporated a form gadget you can certainly get that bonus up even further, but that comes with its own wrinkles.)

              If this sounds exploitable, remember that any roll can fail, that partial transformation costs Aether, and that once you've made a partial transformation you explicitly have to undo it (which costs another point of Aether) to manifest additional powers. Being in a position to use lots of partial transformations means being in a position to make a lot of gambles with compromises and burning through a lot of Aether, both of which tend to weight your playstyle toward the mode where you're doing more running than hiding.


              Resident Lore-Hound
              Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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              • When a Demon is in Cover, they use their Cover rating as their Supernatural Tolerance instead of their Primum. What if they are partially transformed? If they activate three of their Form abilities, do they still get their full Cover as their Supernatural Tolerance?

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                • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                  When a Demon is in Cover, they use their Cover rating as their Supernatural Tolerance instead of their Primum. What if they are partially transformed? If they activate three of their Form abilities, do they still get their full Cover as their Supernatural Tolerance?
                  Unless they opt to use their Primum instead by spending a point of Aether and checking for compromise, yes.


                  Resident Lore-Hound
                  Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                  • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                    When a Demon is in Cover, they use their Cover rating as their Supernatural Tolerance instead of their Primum. What if they are partially transformed? If they activate three of their Form abilities, do they still get their full Cover as their Supernatural Tolerance?
                    While it’s not in the rules I’d go with Cover plus -1 Dice per transformation manifesting.

                    Page 112 says that Cover Rating only works if you are “in Cover” and that being in Demon Form negates this, no stipulation about full or partial transformation which would say to me that you’d have to use Primum.

                    TLDR Rules as Written looks to say Primum is used even if you are partially transformed.

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                    • So, I read about some mages being demon-blooded. I suppose the best way to handle this would be with a merit, right? How many points would it cost a supernatural being (major template) to be an Offspring? What about a Fractal?

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                      • Originally posted by DoktorNiemand View Post
                        So, I read about some mages being demon-blooded. I suppose the best way to handle this would be with a merit, right? How many points would it cost a supernatural being (major template) to be an Offspring? What about a Fractal?
                        I don t think that a minor and major template can be stacked.
                        But for a mage you could buy the inheritance merit of Signs of sorcery, wich allows you to use the character demon blood fame as a yantra

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                        • Originally posted by DontEatRawHagis View Post
                          Page 112 says that Cover Rating only works if you are “in Cover” and that being in Demon Form negates this, no stipulation about full or partial transformation which would say to me that you’d have to use Primum.
                          You're still in Cover in a partial transformation — that's what the partial transformation is transformed onto. You're still making compromise checks with normal roll results; you're not stuck with the only recourse of the Burned just because you have glowing eyes.

                          Originally posted by DoktorNiemand View Post
                          So, I read about some mages being demon-blooded.
                          Per Signs of Sorcery, mages being played as Mage: the Awakening characters either burn out their former supernatural qualities in the Awakening or were never stigmatic in the first place (which all demon-blooded are).


                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                          • Originally posted by Neos01 View Post
                            I don t think that a minor and major template can be stacked.
                            That is not a rule in second edition; only a common convention. Mages specifically lose any minor templates upon Awakening (and major templates, i.e. non-humans, can't Awaken in the first place). No other major templates have any such stipulations. In fact, Wolf-Blooded (associated with werewolves) retain their minor template if they'd ever gain a non-werewolf major template (with the exception of mages).

                            Technically, with the exception of mages, you could mix major templates as well. Many (probably most) combinations wouldn't really make sense, but there's no general rule stopping you from combining templates that aren't obviously mutually exclusive.


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                            • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                              That is not a rule in second edition; only a common convention. Mages specifically lose any minor templates upon Awakening (and major templates, i.e. non-humans, can't Awaken in the first place). No other major templates have any such stipulations. In fact, Wolf-Blooded (associated with werewolves) retain their minor template if they'd ever gain a non-werewolf major template (with the exception of mages).

                              Technically, with the exception of mages, you could mix major templates as well. Many (probably most) combinations wouldn't really make sense, but there's no general rule stopping you from combining templates that aren't obviously mutually exclusive.
                              While I talked about a mage demon-blooded, I was thinking about a Changeling Offspring. Would that be too unbalanced? Maybe as a 5 point merit (and no free Embed)?

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                              • Originally posted by KieranMullen View Post
                                Here's a question: a player gets a bonus to their Compromise roll for every Demonic Form not invoked. If a player takes five dots of Terrible Form, which gives them five additional Forms, and then uses one of their Form abilities, do you think that they should get five extra dice for their Compromise roll?
                                As a general rule, modifiers in ChroD shouldn't exceed ±5 from a single specific source (see Chronicles Corebook pg.69). So, RAW, it'd apply to the cover check, but under general circumstances even a starting demon with no extra dots is going to be on a +5 for manifesting a single demonic form ability. It'd certainly be significantly easier for them to partially transform a larger amount of abilities out safely, though!

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