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Splat stacking - minor to major template?

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  • Splat stacking - minor to major template?

    I'm running a chronicle which has quite a few Major Splats already in play (Mage, Werewolves, Vampires, etc. etc.)

    One of the characters is Stigmatic. Like all Stigmatics, she has a supernatural merit from the encounter with infrastructure (Telekenisis), her 'brand' (a glyph tattoo along the side of her body), and, of course, the Unseen Sense: God Machine merit. I know that with other minor templates (such as Wolf-Blooded), those splats keep their templates in the event of transforming into a Major Splat (if a Wolf-Blooded becomes a Beast, for example, that Beast is a Beast with Wolf-Blooded tells). This Stigmatic character has invested in some other Supernatural Merits since becoming Stigmatic, but this is my main question:

    What happens if this Stigmatic is transformed in to another, Major template?
    What if she, say, decides to seek the Embrace from a vampire? Would she then become a Kindred with Supernatural Merits, a glyph tattoo, and the Unseen Sense merit? Would the things she received upon becoming Stigmatic disappear completely, leaving only the Supernatural Merits she's personally invested in?

    Any insight and direction would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    You can only have one template at a time. I would rule rule they only keep their stigmata, which explicitly cannot be removed. You also loose all Supernatural Merits when you gain a supernatural template.
    Last edited by Gallus; 09-27-2016, 09:19 AM.


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    • #3
      I think there was mention of a mage who retained his stigmatism and ability to sense the god-machine somewhere in 2e.

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      • #4
        They'd probably keep the stock Stigmatic abilities (possibly/likely the freebie Supernatural Merit tied to their Stigmata), but lose the others due to no longer meeting the prereqs. They'd get the XP refunded, though.


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        • #5
          In this forum, or maybe rpgnet, an author said that yes, a stigmatic that gains a template retains their stigmatic traits, but loses supernatural merits.

          I presume what was meant was that they lose any supernatural merits they bought and keep the inherent ones.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by StSword View Post
            In this forum, or maybe rpgnet, an author said that yes, a stigmatic that gains a template retains their stigmatic traits, but loses supernatural merits.

            I presume what was meant was that they lose any supernatural merits they bought and keep the inherent ones.
            Yeah. The big question in my mind is what about the "half" templates, like Demon-Blooded, Proximi, ect. Can you be a Demon-Blooded Werewolf, bringing Embeds into the mix with Gifts? Or a Proximus Changeling, having both Contracts and a limited selection of spells? Or what about the Micro-Templates (in Hurt Locker)? A Psychic Vampire, Vampire just tickles me conceptually.


            Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
            Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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            • #7
              According to "After the Fall" Dracula was a Stigmatic.


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              • #8
                I believe the previews for Secrets of the Covenants include a new Coil of the Dragon that specifically allows Vampires to keep/regain other supernatural merits from minor templates, so there's some precedent.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Caladriu View Post
                  I believe the previews for Secrets of the Covenants include a new Coil of the Dragon that specifically allows Vampires to keep/regain other supernatural merits from minor templates, so there's some precedent.
                  You'd need to learn it all again, and it's restricted to a single supernatural merit IIRC.

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                  • #10
                    'Sometimes within the course of a chronicle, a Wolf-Blooded character may change her core nature. She may experience the First Change, be ghouled or Embraced by a vampire, be drawn into the Hedge, or even Awaken as a Mage, should the story benefit from those changes. In any of these cases, the Storyteller may require the character lose any Wolf-Blooded Merit she has to reflect her disconnect from Father Wolf and Luna. In this case, consult the Sanctity of Merits rules on p. 105. Unless she goes through the First Change, a Wolf-Blooded character retains her Tell if she becomes another kind of supernatural creature.'

                    Werewolf the Forsaken, p300. It does say 'may require,' and not that the character must lose all their Merits.

                    As for minor template 'stacking,' I don't see why not. The specific rules for others may say otherwise, but there's nothing keeping you from playing a Wolf-Blooded Ghoul.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nofather View Post
                      'Sometimes within the course of a chronicle, a Wolf-Blooded character may change her core nature. She may experience the First Change, be ghouled or Embraced by a vampire, be drawn into the Hedge, or even Awaken as a Mage, should the story benefit from those changes. In any of these cases, the Storyteller may require the character lose any Wolf-Blooded Merit she has to reflect her disconnect from Father Wolf and Luna. In this case, consult the Sanctity of Merits rules on p. 105. Unless she goes through the First Change, a Wolf-Blooded character retains her Tell if she becomes another kind of supernatural creature.'

                      Werewolf the Forsaken, p300. It does say 'may require,' and not that the character must lose all their Merits.

                      As for minor template 'stacking,' I don't see why not. The specific rules for others may say otherwise, but there's nothing keeping you from playing a Wolf-Blooded Ghoul.

                      I'm actually involved with a character I'm running for who is a Fractal Ghoul (yes, it's possible, apparently. One of the Devs of God Machine confirmed that 'he is okay with Fractal [x]s... and so is the God-Machine'. So there's that.

                      You've all been super, super helpful. Appreciated!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Malus View Post

                        You'd need to learn it all again, and it's restricted to a single supernatural merit IIRC.
                        You're memory is a little muddy- Presuming nothing will be changed, those dragons have access to one supernatural merit per level in the coil they have, until they hit level five, at which point the only limit is the cooperation of the storyteller.

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