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Sin-Eaters and Kindred and Blood Bonds, Oh My

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  • Sin-Eaters and Kindred and Blood Bonds, Oh My

    Just a little speculation here, since I haven't been able to find any official answers myself in the books. If they're out there, I'd love to know.

    Can Sin-Eaters be blood bound by kindred? The blood bond is a supernatural bond, with the Kindred's blood merely acting as the vehicle of transport, but Sin-Eaters are already supernaturally bound to their geists. They are literally fused together at the level of the soul, and geists certainly wouldn't be affected by the passive aspects of a kindred's blood. In fact, they already affect their Bounds' blood themselves, giving it the properties that allows it to hold plasm.

    For that matter, can kindred feed off Sin-Eaters? How would they react to the plasm in the bloodstream? Would the Sin-Eater's body automatically release a cloud of ectoplasmic vapor into the Kindred's face, trying to repair itself from the bite wound? I could see a kindred's bite giving a Sin-Eater the usual debilitating high, since Bound can still experience the effects of drugs and drunkenness and such, but I haven't been able to find anything explaining what it's like for Kindred trying to feed off a Bound. Would they not even notice the plasm, or would it taste "bitter," or what?



  • #2
    As far as Requiem is concerned, yes, they can be bonded. It's not in the core, or it's not explicitly stated (I don't think?) but the Vampire Rules FAQ states that the other monster splats are vulnerable to blood bonds. Of course, the future Crossover Chronicle book might go into more in depth.

    As for feeding, it tends to be that supernatural blood is the same as human blood (Demons are an exception), but I could see Sin-Eater blood having an odd flavour, or strange side effects.

    In general, the games tend to avoid putting too fine a point on this kind of thing, because it can get overly complicated figuring out every special circumstance and interaction (and word count is precious), but again, the Crossover book will likely address things like this.



    Sam Young | Vampires ruin everything freelancer

    VtR: 13 Licks: The Curses of Caine in Blood and Smoke13 Licks: Tricks of the DamnedBtP: Secrets of VancouverCofD: Mysterious Place: The Cabin
    Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines

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    • #3
      Edit: My Internet connection is silly and made me double post.
      Last edited by Yossarian; 12-04-2016, 02:53 AM.



      Sam Young | Vampires ruin everything freelancer

      VtR: 13 Licks: The Curses of Caine in Blood and Smoke13 Licks: Tricks of the DamnedBtP: Secrets of VancouverCofD: Mysterious Place: The Cabin
      Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines

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      • #4
        2e kindred need the Unnatural Affinity (Bound) merit to get vitae from sin-eaters, so presumably the plasm in their blood does something to render it inert or the geist can do something to stop the vitae from being in the blood that the vampire drinks.

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        • #5
          I would think they would get a magic high for magic is delicious.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
            2e kindred need the Unnatural Affinity (Bound) merit to get vitae from sin-eaters, so presumably the plasm in their blood does something to render it inert or the geist can do something to stop the vitae from being in the blood that the vampire drinks.

            I read unnatural affinity as allowing vampires to take non-vampire blood and treat it as vampire blood for the purposes of blood potency restrictions, not as implying that you require it to gain any vitae from them, just that their blood is treated as human blood without the merit.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Fumus View Post
              I read unnatural affinity as allowing vampires to take non-vampire blood and treat it as vampire blood for the purposes of blood potency restrictions, not as implying that you require it to gain any vitae from them, just that their blood is treated as human blood without the merit.
              The merit's benefit is that it allows you to gain sustenance from a type of supernatural creature. Since that is the benefit of the merit, without the merit you get no benefit from drinking the blood of werewolves, ghosts, zombies, mummies, etc.
              Last edited by milo v3; 12-04-2016, 04:42 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                The merit's benefit is that it allows you to gain sustenance from a type of supernatural creature. Since that is the benefit of the merit, without the merit you get no benefit from drinking the blood of werewolves, ghosts, zombies, mummies, etc.
                I'm pretty sure the Merit allows you to treat supernatural blood as Kindred Vitae for purposes of feeding restrictions. Which means that its benefit is allowing elder vampires to have a wider feeding pool. I think there was a discussion about this in the Vampire forums?

                For the topic itself: I'd have the vampires find themselves universally Open to ghosts due to the Plasm surging inside them. Geist 2e spoilers said that Plasm is in fact the same thing as ectoplasm that mages manipulate with the Death Arcanum, and ectoplasm has a quality where it can be made Open to any ghost.


                MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                  I'm pretty sure the Merit allows you to treat supernatural blood as Kindred Vitae for purposes of feeding restrictions.
                  It does say that supernatural blood counts as Kindred Vitae, since the people playing the game need to know how the vampires new ability to drink "insert creature here" blood works in regards to the feeding mechanics... but it's a rather odd interpretation of a merit to only acknowledge the very last sentence of the benefit and pretend the rest of it doesn't exist....

                  For the topic itself: I'd have the vampires find themselves universally Open to ghosts due to the Plasm surging inside them. Geist 2e spoilers said that Plasm is in fact the same thing as ectoplasm that mages manipulate with the Death Arcanum, and ectoplasm has a quality where it can be made Open to any ghost.
                  That could be rather funny to watch. I'd imagine sin-eaters would get out pop-corn to watch the ensuing chaos.

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                  • #10
                    Page 95 in VtR 2E: "If the vampire knows she’s feeding from something not
                    human, and knows that it is otherwise immune to the benefits
                    of her bite, she may spend a point of Willpower to give them
                    the Scarred or Swooning Conditions as normal."


                    If vampires don't get Vitae from beings with blood as if they were human they would always realize what they're trying to drink from isn't human except for the very unlikely scenario of a vampire having the Unnatural Affinity Merit and that vampire would accidentally drink from the type being for which they have the Merit without realizing it. I don't believe that text is included for such a specific scenario.
                    It seems to me more likely that the blood of human-like entities will give Vitae as if they were human, and that the Unnatural Affinity Merit "upgrades" such blood for the sake of feeding restrictions. The Merit can also allow vampires to feed from entities that don't have blood, such as ghosts.


                    Bloodline: The Stygians

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                      It does say that supernatural blood counts as Kindred Vitae, since the people playing the game need to know how the vampires new ability to drink "insert creature here" blood works in regards to the feeding mechanics... but it's a rather odd interpretation of a merit to only acknowledge the very last sentence of the benefit and pretend the rest of it doesn't exist....
                      Because it makes no sense to say that vampires can't derive vitae from the blood of mages or werewolves without it. That would be textbook air-breathing mermaid. The merit's purpose is to let a vampire feed on things they otherwise could not. What this means simply depends on blood potency.

                      A claimed animal would be viable for a low-potency kindred, but above BP3 would require this merit.

                      Werewolves and mages work up til bp5, but above that require the merit.

                      Ghosts and mummies don't have blood, and thus require this merit at all blood potencies.

                      "Each dot of this Merit allows your character to gain sustenance from one type of supernatural creature." does not mean that without it, there are not supernatural creatures that vampires can feed from anyway.

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                      • #12
                        Wow XD so many thoughts here. I do hope the writers address this more concretely at some point.

                        Back to the blood bond question, though, how would it affect the Sin-Eater and geist? Would the geist be blood bound as well, and if so, would the urge to follow the Kindred's commands override their natural raisons d'être? Like if a Kindred ordered a blood bound Bound to not burn things down, would his pyromaniacal geist be cool with it, or would it start fighting the blood bond out of its need to see death by fire?
                        Last edited by Chesh; 12-04-2016, 02:14 PM.


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                        • #13
                          Ha, a blood bond is nowhere near powerful enough to override a Ban. It's a case of polite suggestion vs ALL CONSUMING DRIVE.

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                          • #14
                            True, but only if it doesn't affect geists in the same way it affects living/undead people. That is to say, if it affects the Sin-Eater but not necessarily his geist. Since it's supernatural in nature, could the blood bond override the geist's existing Ban?

                            Personally I don't think so, but since it's not addressed I like to consider it. Geists don't just have Bans - they've forged those bans into their very identities and natures. But the blood bond does work like a "Ban" for the living/undead, turning a person's foremost all-consuming drive into "obey this Kindred," and/or even more strongly, "Drink more of this Kindred's blood." Since a geist is attached at the soul to its Sin-Eater, maybe it could at times feel conflicted about which "Ban" to follow - its own or one imposed by the blood bond on its partner.

                            Again, I highly doubt this; geists don't seem like the kind of entity that would be influenced by anything less than krewe ceremonies. I'm just really curious about how blood bonds affect beings with dualities and preexisting supernatural drives like Sin-Eaters.


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                            • #15
                              Yeah, that's not what a blood bond does. Not in Requiem 2e, at least. It's far weaker and just kind of makes you really like the vampire. It's not going to be able to stand up to any overriding compulsions.

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