Sell me on Geist

[wyrdhamster]

Reading Dark Eras, I was excited to read about Roanoke Colony, as I was thinking 'Yeah, this always interested me, it surely will make work Geist for me!' - but it didn't. It seems, to me, that Geist setting is too flat for me. But I probably miss something. So this is why this topic.

I will show you how I see game and you can point to me if there are other things in itI probably missed. For me, Geist is like 'Werewolf with ghosts - minus all the rest' - you are returned to life ( cool! ), and now you ease way for ghosts or explore Underworld - and that's it. In Werewolf, you have First Change (cool!), handling of spirits in territory, exploring Shadow Realm - but also Sacred Hunt and Preys, Shapeshifting into Five Forms, consequences of your Death Rage, balancing Harmony, Tribes war ( Forsaken vs Pure ), earning Renowns ( and this is greatly used in Vikings Dark Era ), Pack and it's Totem problems,whole Wolf-Blooded phenomena, possible Claimed or Host body horror, reinterpretation of humans myths to understand power full spirits, like Luna, Father\Mother Wolf, etc. Basically, Geist for me is very 'flat' and there is not very much 'spice' in your life AFTER the coming back with Geist in your head (and soul).

I probably miss very important or colorful things in setting. I'm waiting for you to show me them/

[milo v3]

I will show you how I see game and you can point to me if there are other things in itI probably missed. For me, Geist is like 'Werewolf with ghosts - minus all the rest' - you are returned to life ( cool! ), and now you ease way for ghosts or explore Underworld - and that's it.

Yeah that's missing a decent bit. Your also meant to have a focus on valuing life and do carnivals, create cults which empower you by creating a channel between the myths which form the underworld and the your cultists, dealing with revenants and strange ghosts, tracking down immortals and trying to send them into the underworld properly, learning the laws of domains so that you can use them against your enemies, have to deal with gods, continually abuse your powers to give yourself a better life, having to deal with sin-eaters who think "well I'm immortal so now I get to kill whatever I want", getting hunted down by other sin-eaters because they also have the same god in their souls as you, tracking down deathly memorabilia, trying to balance your goals with the goals of the alien presence that's the only thing keeping your ghost in your body.

reinterpretation of humans myths to understand power full spirits

This actually fits Geist better than werewolf as the underworld reacts and reshapes itself to match the myths of mortals, you can actually travel to Valhalla, Heaven, or Naraka. You can meet Jehuty, Thor, Hel, Angels, Hermes, Osiris, Thanatos, Kagutsuchi, etc. If an egyptian has their hearts weighed against truth but both fails the test and escapes the jaws of Ammut, bound are the ones perfect to track them down and return them to their judgement. If hell is underseige by ravenous cthonians, lucifer could request your aid.

[wyrdhamster]

Your also meant to have a focus on valuing life and do carnivals,

So Geist is RPG about parties? Like Werewolf is about Hunt? Typical session in Geist starts with 'you created next great party for ghosts'?

create cults which empower you by creating a channel between the myths which form the underworld and the your cultists

So it's more or less like Pack and Totem, centered on Death only...

dealing with revenants and strange ghosts,

Cool that revenants returned somewhere in CoD! But they are still only 'ghosts in flesh'. So it's 'ghosts this, ghosts that' thing.

tracking down immortals and trying to send them into the underworld properly,

Those immortals sounds interesting - Who are they, if they are other than ghosts?

learning the laws of domains so that you can use them against your enemies,

Sounds a lot like understanding Shadow Realm and it's ecology in Werewolf.

have to deal with gods, continually abuse your powers to give yourself a better life,

Sounds a lot like any other gameline of CoD series, really...

having to deal with sin-eaters who think "well I'm immortal so now I get to kill whatever I want",

Are they somehow more than 'well, there are murderous Sin-Eaters there - sometimes just one of us sounds like to kill all other'. Cause if not, it's like Ghost Wolves or Banishers. Maybe they are like secret order or connected cult, or something?

Are those like getting hunted down by other sin-eaters because they also have the same god in their souls as you,

WAIT! Multiple Sin-Eaters can have SAME Geist in them?! If yes, then it IS interesting stuff there.

tracking down deathly memorabilia,

Any gameline other than Vampire ( and maybe Beast, this I do not remember ) have 'special, magical items'.

trying to balance your goals with the goals of the alien presence that's the only thing keeping your ghost in your body.

Oh, this sounds a lot like Harmony in Werewolf. How it is different from 'you must balance Spirit and Flesh' in Uratha?

This actually fits Geist better than werewolf as the underworld reacts and reshapes itself to match the myths of mortals, you can actually travel to Valhalla, Heaven, or Naraka. You can meet Jehuty, Thor, Hel, Angels, Hermes, Osiris, Thanatos, Kagutsuchi, etc. If an egyptian has their hearts weighed against truth but both fails the test and escapes the jaws of Ammut, bound are the ones perfect to track them down and return them to their judgement. If hell is underseige by ravenous cthonians, lucifer could request your aid.

So it's 'you can recreate any afterlife myths you like, but they are not real-real gods of mortals' sort of thing - well, it is something, to work. But I seems to miss something more unique here. Shadow Realm have this very alien Deep Shadow dimensions - something really weird like that is also in Geist? Or things REALLY Alien to ourselves?

Not to mention that Werewolf now have Idigams to shake things up in chronicles - Is there something like this total alien power in Geist?

[milo v3]

So Geist is RPG about parties? Like Werewolf is about Hunt? Typical session in Geist starts with 'you created next great party for ghosts'?

Geist is the most optimistic line, it has people celebrate life and do parties. Though it's more partying with other sin-eaters than with ghosts (though I'm sure some sin-eaters might invite some ghosts (especially since they can increase rank 1 ghosts into rank 2 ghosts personality-wise so they can have ghost friends). Though their parties might have some of the guests doing things like getting putting a drop of chicken blood on the side of a beer bottle and praising hermes so their ghost-budy can drink as well (since sin-eaters can use their magic as much as they want as long as they have the plasm and that their magic is sorta gutter-magic).

So it's more or less like Pack and Totem, centered on Death only...

Not exactly, but similar. For one, you basically are the totem equivelent, and it operates like a cult or religion rather than a pack. Instead of just sharing benefits (shared merits is also a thing in Krewes), founders (generally the players) can increase and reduce their cultists dicepools to encourage or punish them if they try to do different actions (you can tell your cult that lying to fellow members is blasphemy to the religion, and thus they take a penalty if they try to lie to you or others in the cult (though the founders can still lie to whoever they want), have one of the founder-geists possess the geist of other cultists, hold events like religious rites or massive sin-eater parties to increase the rate of plasm flowing in from the underworld, serve as a way to bring the founders back from the dead better, etc. Finally, while packs are tier 1 groups, krewes start at tier 1 and slowly expand into tier 2 and tier 3 organisations.

Unfortunately, the Pack rules from WtF 2e are infinitely better than the Krewe rules from GtSE 1e.

Cool that revenants returned somewhere in CoD! But they are still only 'ghosts in flesh'. So it's 'ghosts this, ghosts that' thing.

There are enemies other than ghosts, but yes they are the main ephereal of the gameline. But there are also abmortals, anomalies, cthonians, geists, kerberoi, variant forms of sin-eaters who have ripped their geist out of them or become desyncronized with their geist, and abominations created by ghosts claiming people and things.

Those immortals sounds interesting - Who are they, if they are other than ghosts?

None of them are ghosts. Each abmortal/immortal is any individual who has found a way to be immortal, whether that's by getting someone to jump off the bridge they were meant to die from every year, bathing in blood every twenty years, being a vampire, etc. It has a small number of sample abmortals.

Sounds a lot like understanding Shadow Realm and it's ecology in Werewolf.

Not exactly, in the Shadow the laws are just placed by a spirit being strong and going "if you don't follow my laws I'm going to eat you or get one of my minions eat you". In the underworld every "island" will have a separate list of specific laws, the old laws must always be written down (though how they get written down is up to that domains "Kerberoi") and is enforced by a single specific guardian known as a Kerberoi (named after a famous three headed dog who's domain allows any to enter but leaving is forbidden by the old laws). If your not careful, flinching when a hideous shade begs you for food can lead to the Kerberoi sensing you've broken a law and suddenly you have a grandfather clock with gnashing teeth and centipede legs after you, who might attack you/incarcerate you/claim you as it's agent and give you a list of tasks to perform/demand a certain amount of blood from people who have recently eaten fish/etc.

Sounds a lot like any other gameline of CoD series, really...

Not exactly. It's sorta like, if mage saw no issue with you constantly abusing your powers, and you can actually get rewarded for acts of hubris basically.

Are they somehow more than 'well, there are murderous Sin-Eaters there - sometimes just one of us sounds like to kill all other'.

One of the Y splats is based around believing they can just kill whoever they want, that they have the right to decide who deserves to live and who deserves to die.

WAIT! Multiple Sin-Eaters can have SAME Geist in them?! If yes, then it IS interesting stuff there.

Yeah, you can have things like if you have the angel raphael in your soul, you might meet other people who have raphael. Sacrosancts are sin-eaters who believe the other sin-eaters with their geists in them are the worst form of hersey there could be and purposefully hunt them down over and over and over so they can murder your geist.

Any gameline other than Vampire ( and maybe Beast, this I do not remember ) have 'special, magical items'.

Yeah, but these ones have real world objects in them like the car Kenedy was assassinated in in.

Oh, this sounds a lot like Harmony in Werewolf. How it is different from 'you must balance Spirit and Flesh' in Uratha?

It's really similar, but closer to 1e harmony. Synergy really needs to be more personalized to your geist than it is currently, hopefully in 2e it will be more unique.

So it's 'you can recreate any afterlife myths you like, but they are not real-real gods of mortals' sort of thing - well, it is something, to work.

No, they might actually be the real gods from the myths, though sin-eaters aren't 100% certain.

But I seems to miss something more unique here. Shadow Realm have this very alien Deep Shadow dimensions - something really weird like that is also in Geist? Or things REALLY Alien to ourselves?

Not that I can remember off the top of my head other than Domains with alien rules.

Not to mention that Werewolf now have Idigams to shake things up in chronicles - Is there something like this total alien power in Geist?

Not yet, but they've said their will be one added for 2e. Closest are the kereboi or death gods.

[SunlessNick]

The lead developer - though I can't recall where - summed up Geist like so (paraphrased):

Ghost stories are inherently tragedies. Every one ultimately revolves around a problem - a secret, a crime, a loss - that it's too late to resolve. Geist is about having the power to look at one of these stories and saying, "Lets fix that."

[21C Hermit]

More in contrast with Werewolf, since that seems to be the reference point you're most familiar with:

If Werewolf is about animism, then Geist is about shamanism.
If Werewolf is about pursuing an urge inside your heart, Geist is about keeping a duty to the world.
If Werewolf is about coming to peace with your own dual natures, Geist is about coming to understand the Other.
If Werewolf is about fire-forged bonds beyond words, Geist is about ideologies and philosophies beyond cultures.

The hollowness you felt after reading Geist's Dark Eras most likely result from Geist 2e not being developed enough yet, both in concept and system. Remember when Werewolf 1e used to be judged unfairly as a game about Spirit Cops, a game about wolf-themed spiritualisrs, and Apocalypse Lite? And how that was dispelled with 2e coming out? Geist is going through a similar phase, so be at ease and take your time coming to terms with it.

Last thing; as how understanding that werewolves are hunters foremost helps understand Werewolf, I find understanding that sin-eaters are psychopomps helps understand Geist.

[SunlessNick]

If Werewolf is about animism, then Geist is about shamanism.
If Werewolf is about pursuing an urge inside your heart, Geist is about keeping a duty to the world.
If Werewolf is about coming to peace with your own dual natures, Geist is about coming to understand the Other.
If Werewolf is about fire-forged bonds beyond words, Geist is about ideologies and philosophies beyond cultures.

Werewolf is about how everything we do has an impact on the world around us. Geist is about how everything we do has an imapct on the people around us.

[21C Hermit]

Werewolf is about how everything we do has an impact on the world around us. Geist is about how everything we do has an imapct on the people around us.

Yes, this too. Goes nicely with 2e's general stance on ghosts (mostly treating them as people)