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New to CofD: Struggling to get my head around Sin-eaters interactions with ghosts.

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  • New to CofD: Struggling to get my head around Sin-eaters interactions with ghosts.

    Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere but I simply cannot find the answers (which means I probably am totally missing the point). I am confused over how sin eaters interactions with ghosts in actually play .
    1) I understand that a Sin eater can distinguish between ghosts and people in any given situation if the ghost is manifested (and not hiding) -correct?
    2) I also believe that the sin eater can talk to a manifested ghost but can he inflict injury upon the manifested ghost using only a memento, manifestation or ceremony? If not what else is at his/her disposal?
    3) Obvious earthy weaponry such as guns, knifes etc. are useless against the ghost or a Geist either manifested or not. However, to 'physically' get a hand on the ghost a sin eater must reverse possess his Geist-correct?
    4) and I also presume that he can continue to deploy his manifestation abilities in twilight-correct?
    5) beyond getting to give a ghost a good kicking in Twilight -what is the point of twilight as a ghost not manifested is surely no pressing concern and you are no more powerful in twilight than in the physical world? Twilight does not offer any additional clues or leads from what I understand.
    6) I have tried to get a grip on this by listening to the DIE PARTY Sin Eaters podcast but it just confused me more on this issue as they had a episode in which two ghosts were serving the sin eaters at a restaurant and none of the sin eaters where aware that the staff were ghosts until they shifted their vision into twilight. Eh???

    Please help: I love the premise of Geist and I am keen to develop my re-found love of RPGs so any clarifications would be most appreciated.

    Thanks Chris.
    Last edited by crew1; 09-21-2017, 09:29 AM.

  • #2
    One important note is that Giest: The Sineater is about to get a new edition so alot of stuff will probably be changing

    Like in 1e the Bound had either mortal soul, in 2e we're been told you have a ghost instead of your soul and its the Ghost that makes the deal with the Geist, not your soul because its departed.

    So any answered we could give to your questions, could be out of date when GtSE 2e comes out.


    • #3
      Twilight is a state of being which is part of the physical world, but invisible and intangible to physical things - but things in the same state of being can interact normally.
      Ghosts exist in Twilight naturally, but can use powers to shift into a physical state. Once physical, anything physical can interact with it normally - even ordinary people and objects; they have some resistance to mundane physical harm, but can still be hurt normally. Supernatural attacks, objects, and powers are more effective, but anything can wear them down eventually.
      But they can only only manifest for brief periods, and can chooseto return to Twilight if they face opposition... say, to reposition, manifest again, and ambush people. While in Twilight, they can even use some powers to affect physical things - so they're far from harmless.

      Sin-eaters innately see ghosts in Twilight as easily as any physical person - which lets them easily, say, noitice invisible spies. With effort (reverse possession) they can even physically interact with ghosts in Twilight, letting them wrestle out ghosts possessing people or keep attacking opponents that become intangible.
      As for their manifestations and ceremonies... its not entirely clear, but only the Stigmata Rage clarifies that it can affect ghosts in Twilight (IIRC), which implies that most won't work across states of being; meaning the Sin-eater would need to shift to Twilight themselves to use their powers - requiring Stillness Shroud and the like, not merely reverse possession.

      Now a Sin-eater's ability to detect ghosts is only the default. Ghosts can try to hide behind things, or use numina to obscure themselves - requiring more active attempts to spot them. In particular "mortal mask" allows them to appear like a normal, living human. That might be what happened in the podcast.

      I hope that clarifies things... Twilight can be really tricky to grok. It works a little bit like solid vs gaseous, and a little like phase-shifting. Beings in Twilight are invisible to the physical world and can pass through physical things, but can still see the physical world- making it excellent for spying and escapes. But only a rare few powers can affect the physical from Twilight (and vice versa). Its not a perfect escape, though, as you "share a frequency" with similar-state beings - in this case, other ghosts and sin-eaters.
      (2e explains that ghosts and other things, like spirits, angels, and mental projections are out-of-sync with each other. So Twilight is a bunch of different states of being. ... but that's not going to be relevant in a purely Geist.tse game.)

      Second Chance for
      A Beautiful Madness


      • #4
        Thanks so much kitty. Totally clicked now and feel ready to put my first game together. I hope the second edition is more transparent and concrete in it's game mechanisms, I am a trail of cthulhu GM and I wish Cof D could follow pelgrane press in balancing theme text against actual useful game play examples more in their core rule books. But hey I think I got there in the end. Thanks again


        • #5
          Don't want to confuse things but Ghost not waiting to reform after Discorporation are always Manifest the default one being Twilight form and is their natural state. Being physically tangible by mundane material beings is a specific Manifestation called Materialize, and yes they are resistant to hatm because while they can be touched they lack life functions requiring working organ system, thus taking bashing from everything that isn't a Bane.

          I recommend reading through the ephermeral being section of CofD especially Manifestations. It leans a little heavy is support for Spirits because their rules are more complex with the Guantlet and hisil ecology, but the basic system is there.

          About the Waitresses in the example there is a Numina that makes Materialize more convincing, it is called Mortal Mask.

          About investigating in Twilight it us important to remember there are Ghost of buildings too, for example the Portland Hotel that used to be where Pioneer Square in Portland Oregon, not a location you could walk the halls of the upper stories today. Besides that combat is not the only activity that requires physical contact with the living-impaired, and the lack of physical contact with the physical world allow access to all sorts of places otherwise hard to reach.

          “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
          "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto