[2E Hack] Archetypes as Y-Splats, not Krewe

[Satchel]

I see a lot of people saying that krewes in Geist should have group archetypes and doctrines and stuff so the krewe can have a unified focus. In the Chicago city book there are a number of werewolf packs. Each one has a specific focus (clean up the river, help the homeless, fight fire spirits, etc) but the packs all contain werewolves from different tribes. This shows that it is possible to have a krewe with a specific focus where the members deal with that focus in different ways ( by being different archetypes). A given focus may attract members of specific archetypes, but it shouldn't say "only members of this particular archetype can be included". Also, this is all great for NPC krewes, but PC krewes should be different. PC krewes should never be limited to one specific focus. It would be like saying "for this chronicle your characters will only be dealing with the ghosts of murdered homeless people". That's just silly. It should be more like "your characters will be dealing with troublesome ghosts in the city. You each have your own reasons for doing so, and your own way of dealing with them. Your diversity is what's you better than the NPC krewes that only focus on one specific area (if any other krewes even exist in the city)". I mean, by my understanding, geists are pretty rare, and it's unlikely that a city will have more than 1-2 krewes in it. The chances that all the geists in the city share the same archetype is highly unlikely. It's more likely that each is different and they come together for mutual support, and so their different skills can cover each other's weaknesses. Anyway, tldr version: I really don't like the krewe creation rules as they stand. They limit both character creation and chronicle creation WAY too much. If they stay as they are I'll be doing extensive house ruling to eliminate them in their entirety. hopefully the final book will have something in it that allows for the creating of mixed archetype krewes with more open doctrines.

Okay, first, use line breaks.

Second, "there's an early 1e book with characters from the gameline where the political axis denotes semi-philosophical divisions between the self-appointed stewards of the ever-changing mirror-world, each branch of which is hundreds to thousands of years old and sponsored by an immortal thematic godling who doesn't exclusively live over an acid pit to oblivion, and characters from those divisions can share membership in the spiritual subgrouping with the most local concern and lowest impact on its members outside of one major structural taboo" is not an argument for the splat full of temporary people joined with temporary ghosts forming cults with a lifespan measured in decades to deal with the ever-draining sinkhole below the world.

Third, Krewe Archetypes aren't "your krewe deals with the ghosts of homeless people," they're "your krewe deals with seeking justice for the dead" or "your krewe deals with altering the place of the dead in society" or "your krewe deals with the things that ghosts tend to form around." Particulars like how to deal with the homeless is the domain of Doctrines, which can and will change over the course of play as your characters' fledgeling religious institution grows, adapts, and sheds splinter factions. None of this is "PCs are limited to one specific focus."

Fourth, geists don't have Archetypes. There is zero chance that all the geists in a city will share the same Archetype, because Archetype in 2e is a description of a type of cult. Characters can lean into the broad category of their Krewe Archetype for the benefits it affords them, but that niche exists largely independent of a character's Burden, Remembrance, and Touchstones. The krewe gives PCs something in common to work on in a game where they have a wealth of personal projects to balance it with.

[Leliel]

Okay, first, use line breaks.

Second, "there's an early 1e book with characters from the gameline where the political axis denotes semi-philosophical divisions between the self-appointed stewards of the ever-changing mirror-world, each branch of which is hundreds to thousands of years old and sponsored by an immortal thematic godling who doesn't exclusively live over an acid pit to oblivion, and characters from those divisions can share membership in the spiritual subgrouping with the most local concern and lowest impact on its members outside of one major structural taboo" is not an argument for the splat full of temporary people joined with temporary ghosts forming cults with a lifespan measured in decades to deal with the ever-draining sinkhole below the world.

Third, Krewe Archetypes aren't "your krewe deals with the ghosts of homeless people," they're "your krewe deals with seeking justice for the dead" or "your krewe deals with altering the place of the dead in society" or "your krewe deals with the things that ghosts tend to form around." Particulars like how to deal with the homeless is the domain of Doctrines, which can and will change over the course of play as your characters' fledgeling religious institution grows, adapts, and sheds splinter factions. None of this is "PCs are limited to one specific focus."

Fourth, geists don't have Archetypes. There is zero chance that all the geists in a city will share the same Archetype, because Archetype in 2e is a description of a type of cult. Characters can lean into the broad category of their Krewe Archetype for the benefits it affords them, but that niche exists largely independent of a character's Burden, Remembrance, and Touchstones. The krewe gives PCs something in common to work on in a game where they have a wealth of personal projects to balance it with.

Fifth, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of how Archetypes work here; they're five general types of krewe that have ideologies that provoke Sin-Eater as opposed to plain Bound sentiments - which makes the krewe into something both ostensibly likable and active as opposed to passive. The five "dark archetypes" only have one that is really explicitly evil (the Elysians), all the others are fairly playable but do not have a focus on all parts of the game world. Thanatologists don't actually believe in Cartharsis or Catabasis, Gatekeepers don't want to reform the Underworld, Bonepickers stay the hell away from ghosts to begin with. Those who do end up qualifying for one of the different Sin-Eater archetypes (Mourners, Pilgrims, and Necropolitans, respectively). The biggest crunch it effects is the three beginning Ceremonies, nothing else.

[xiongrey]

Yeah I think that Archetypes just don't do enough to merit each char having their own archetype. I still think that, if you wanted extra variation and choice (related to the Krewe) I'd go with something similar to either Doctrines and/or a separate set of Aspirations (or combine those) that have special benefits for completing/acting along the lines of (like maybe some sort of underworld awakening causing ceremonies to be learned or... what have you).

If your goal is to add more char personalization, I am not sure divorcing Archetype from the Krewe would serve your goal and I think it would hurt the Krewe creation. Instead I'd go with something like the above.