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  • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    It's pretty clear it's 2 XP per dot, but I agree that it's unreasonably expensive for characters. A five dot Ceremony costs 10 XP! You can also exchange starting Merit dots for Ceremonies, seemingly on a dot for dot basis. Considering that and that werewolf Rites (the closest equivalent that I can think of right now) are one XP per dot, I'd heavily recommend houseruling the XP cost to one XP per dot. At least for Bound characters, giving them a bit of an XP break for being more attuned with Ceremonies due to their ties to deathly energies and all that stuff. It might be more reasonable for Krewes, but I don't have enough experience (hehe) with the Krewe XP economy to say.
    Rites have their character creation exchange rate hard-capped at five dots' worth, can only be rolled for by werewolves and certain types of Wolf-Blooded, are resolved as extended actions that automatically dramatically fail if interrupted and lose three dice on subsequent rolls with a regular failure, and are bound up in packs' relation to the Shadow and their territory.

    Ceremonies are resolved as instant actions with a time prerequisite, can be rolled for by anybody, have a much less onerous consequences for failure and interruption, and every Sin-Eater in a krewe starts with free access to fifteen dots' worth of Ceremonies (with another five gated behind raising their krewe's Esotery and spending 2 Experiences to strengthen their Initiation). The published four- and five-dot Ceremonies let you call up ghosts from anywhere, create lasting instances of the Anchor Condition, and forge new Mementos or Avernian Gates, and even weaker Ceremonies can manage things like staving off Essence Bleed or applying Bans to a location or duplicating a spell that mages need multiple dots in an Arcanum to accomplish. Krewes connect them to their Esotery and attendant mythology; unaffiliated Sin-Eaters and other characters pick them up piecemeal or to suit their particular aims.

    Werewolves with rites are part of a global society of supernatural beings, connected to another world where sources of information and supernatural power tend to persist. Occult knowledge being lost is not as big a concern as it being held by beings that demand payment and/or service for it.

    Sin-Eaters with krewes have only started being a consistent phenomenon in the last century or so, having previously been the product of temporal flashpoints in history and geography, and primarily interact with another world that combines the two most malicious features of two other otherworlds in addition to being run through with hazards that destroy those immortal conscious beings that interact with them. Lost knowledge is a real issue, particularly when the most probable sources of it are either right bastards or incapable of communicating it immediately (if not both at once).

    Ceremonies are more primarily a thing that krewes have than Sin-Eaters in particular, as evidenced by the whole sidebar about how they don't have any specific tie to the Bound and are just parts of how the world works. It tracks for learning them to be more expensive individually than collectively in a game where collective action is the root of an entire endgame. Sin-Eaters who aren't deep into a death cult don't have a big bag of tricks unless they've done the legwork for it, because the specific tweaks to reality that their nature relies on are innate to their template; mortals and ghosts and mediums likewise don't pick up this knowledge without some pretty deep investment.

    It's the second-cheapest cost in the game and it can be divided across the entire table if you're playing into the side of the game where it matters most. This is a game where your main powerstat has its own Experience type and four sources of free dots. You can afford to spend ten Experiences to learn how to crack open a fresh gate to the Underworld for the rest of the chronicle if you don't want to reach the pinnacle of a powerful religion of the living dead first.
    Last edited by Satchel; 01-30-2021, 02:42 AM.


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    Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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    • Can bound be in Krewes with sin-eaters? Outside of obviously conflicting ideology does a compromise in belief prevent it?

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      • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
        Can bound be in Krewes with sin-eaters? Outside of obviously conflicting ideology does a compromise in belief prevent it?
        The Bound are called so because of their bond to their resident Geist that resurrected them through the Bargain. Sin-Eaters are just a subset of the Bound that are ideologically predisposed to helping ghosts. It's kinda like asking if werewolves can be in packs with the Forsaken.

        But can Sin-Eaters and Bound that aren't considered Sin-Eaters be part of the same krewe? Totally, as long as the doctrines aren't too pro or anti "Sin-Eating" philosophies/activities.


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        • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

          The Bound are called so because of their bond to their resident Geist that resurrected them through the Bargain. Sin-Eaters are just a subset of the Bound that are ideologically predisposed to helping ghosts. It's kinda like asking if werewolves can be in packs with the Forsaken.

          But can Sin-Eaters and Bound that aren't considered Sin-Eaters be part of the same krewe? Totally, as long as the doctrines aren't too pro or anti "Sin-Eating" philosophies/activities.
          I was just wondering whether it was more like the pure and the forsaken.

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          • Can the Bound end Haunt Conditions they created at will? There are some that strongly indicate it - like the Caul Condition, which actually resolves once "the geist is dismissed from their body either willingly or unwillingly" - but I can't find anything that indicates it is possible to simply end the condition because I said so. Maybe I'm missing something, as I have before, so worth the try.

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            • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
              I was just wondering whether it was more like the pure and the forsaken.
              Nope. The Pure wage an ideological war against the Forsaken collectively, and perform a scarring ritual that scours off their auspice and makes them metaphysically distinct from Forsaken werewolves. There is no collective organization or ideology of non-Sin-Eater Bound, nor any intrinsic metaphysical difference. "Sin-Eater" is just a cultural designation, and not one with a clearly agreed upon definition. It's just a word for "I think we Bound have a responsibility to use our powers to better the lot of others, and you don't seem to agree."

              You could have a case where people argue if a particular Bound is really a Sin-Eater or not. Whether a werewolf is Pure or not is generally an easy call.
              Last edited by Stupid Loserman; 02-06-2021, 01:34 AM.

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              • Originally posted by Andrew Kaninchen View Post
                Can the Bound end Haunt Conditions they created at will? There are some that strongly indicate it - like the Caul Condition, which actually resolves once "the geist is dismissed from their body either willingly or unwillingly" - but I can't find anything that indicates it is possible to simply end the condition because I said so. Maybe I'm missing something, as I have before, so worth the try.

                Each condition has its own method of ending. For example, Memoria states that it ends when all charges are spent. Rage ends at the end of the scene. Dirge ends when the Sin-Eater stops singing. Ultimately, I would say it's a matter of interpretation by the Storyteller.

                For me, these are conditions created by the player, unless it would benefit the story, or otherwise be a challenge, I would allow them to end it at will.

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                • I'm working on a sin-eater character, and his geist died by poisoning. Do you have any good idea about a bane for a poison's victim geist?

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                  • Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
                    I'm working on a sin-eater character, and his geist died by poisoning. Do you have any good idea about a bane for a poison's victim geist?
                    "Whatever poison killed them" is the first thing that comes to mind. Classics include arsenic, cyanide, and strychnine, but the list of substances that will make a human body stop working is quite long.


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                    Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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                    • Boneyard Questions

                      The boneyard ends when you leave the area. Does that mean you have to be INSIDE the area of your boneyard? Or can you stand just outside the space, like pressing a hand on the outside wall? How about ominously standing across the street?

                      Are you subject to the penalties of the boneyard while inside it? Such as taking penalties to escape, suffering environmental hazards, or having to obey your own laws?

                      Do you count as a faux Kerebos for breaking a Boneyard law?
                      Last edited by Incendax; 02-19-2021, 04:57 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by Incendax View Post
                        Boneyard Questions

                        The boneyard ends when you leave the area. Does that mean you have to be INSIDE the area of your boneyard? Or can you stand just outside the space, like pressing a hand on the outside wall? How about ominously standing across the street?

                        Are you subject to the penalties of the boneyard while inside it? Such as taking penalties to escape, suffering environmental hazards, or having to obey your own laws?

                        Do you count as a faux Kerebos for breaking a Boneyard law?
                        To my understanding, they must be inside it. But even then if you really mean standing just outside it, I would leave to storyteller discretion. They are not subject to the penalties, and I think even Laws. Not sure how to answer the last part

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                        • Hello friends, I'm about to play a crossover as sin-eater. I also have the feeling that soon or later the master will send us into the underworld, but humans, vampires and werewolves can really travel in the underworld just like sin-eaters do?

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                          • Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
                            Hello friends, I'm about to play a crossover as sin-eater. I also have the feeling that soon or later the master will send us into the underworld, but humans, vampires and werewolves can really travel in the underworld just like sin-eaters do?
                            They can, but they cannot normally se avernian gates, so they must locate them by various alternative ways.
                            Also sin eaters have easy ways to open the portals, while other creatures must find the necessary keys.
                            In the underworld sin eaters can use their innate Keys to navigate, other creatures must use the classical ways.
                            Add to it that the underworld is empty of nourishing food and blood...
                            They CAN but what an hellish trip

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                            • Well, I suppose we can carry some supplies with us, I'm right?
                              And also, ghosts can eat food from the living world?

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                              • This is a bit unclear in 2E (at least, I’m not finding the section dealing with it), but other Realms (like the Shadow) and the Underworld in 1E stated that living things and physical items are converted to ephemera once they cross into the Underworld. Equipment mostly works, but gets unreliable.
                                IIRC from Book of the Dead (1E), physical food brought into the underworld can nourish the living - and anyone intentionally delving definitely brought those supplies - but that it didn’t provide Essence to ghosts. There seemed to be a difference between objects converted into ephemera and inherently ghostly objects that provided essence; I’m not sure if that carried over to 2E.

                                I would rule in my games that mortal food/items cannot sustain ghosts (can’t give Essence), but does retain most of its properties (like taste and utility) - often making it more valuable to ghosts. Being able to truly taste a favored meal, or receiving an instrument they’ll never be tempted to consume for survival being rare moments of hope that would deeply indebt them, and possibly lead to discovering how they Resolve. But YMMV.
                                Usually the Living have more direct ways of nourishing ghosts, particularly non-Bound who are able to interact with them. Just remembering them or leaving minor offerings can bestow a point of Essence or two, and would probably be even easier in the Underworld.
                                I think that, after being converted to ephemera, I would rule objects can’t be destroyed in a way that creates Castoffs, though. That feels like a process that should happen in the mortal world... but that’s just my opinion.
                                Last edited by Seraph Kitty; 02-22-2021, 01:18 PM.


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