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Clarification about Physical Medium

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  • Clarification about Physical Medium

    On page 97 regarding Physical Medium it says...

    "...While living mediums can speak with the dead, a Sin-Eater can reach out and touch them. Ghosts are as solid to her as living people; she can punch, grab, or kiss a ghost as she would anyone else. This only extends as far as her body and clothing; she can’t stab or shoot a ghost, at least not without a weapon created for that purpose..."

    further down it says

    "...Ghost Touch: The Bound can see, touch, and interact with ghosts and other ephemeral beings with death-related Influences or Numina as easily as they can with the living. This ability extends to anything they wear or use, including ranged weapons..."

    this is a bit confusing. I assume that a Geist can touch an unmanifested ghost but only punch them with unarmed combat, and needs a memento gun to shoot them, but the text seems contradictory.

  • #2
    Geists can't technically do that, but the Bound/Sin-Eater they've entered the Bargain with can.
    And yes, it is contradictory. I recommend picking one of the two texts and just go with that for consistency.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #3
      Wait three days and see how the sections look in the final copy.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • #4
        I've got the physical Kickstarter copy, and they corrected the text: "...she can’t stab or shoot a ghost, at least not without a weapon created for that purpose..." was cut.



        Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

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        • #5
          So the bound can punch the ghosts but her geist cannot do same?

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          • #6
            Her geist is bound up in her spiritual biology. Her Haunts may manifest as projecting her geist in some cases, like a use of the Rage that manifests as her geist flying out and clawing at people, but that's an expression of the Haunt and not an intrinsic ability of the geist.

            If her geist is unleashed, then it can punch the ghosts. An unleashed geist behaves very similarly to just a powerful ghost hovering around you.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
              So the bound can punch the ghosts but her geist cannot do same?
              Generally, a geist is just an image projected into Twilight (if it even bothers to project itself; otherwise it has no representation in the world except through the Bound). It has no substance, even for other ghosts. It requires either Unleashing the geist or use of specific Haunts in order to make a geist who has made the Bargain be able to do anything physical at all.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • #8
                So a geist is immaterial even for the Twilight creatures? The I guess I misunderstood the corebook!
                Last edited by Ipergigio; 03-18-2020, 09:17 AM.

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                • #9
                  Just to clarify...A Sin-eater can now pick up a gun and shoot a ghost with it?

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                  • #10
                    Do you mean a mundane gun? Well I hope he cannot, it's a total nonsense!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
                      Do you mean a mundane gun? Well I hope he cannot, it's a total nonsense!
                      Guns have ammo, ghosts don't have organs or the need to worry about losing their Defense against ranged attacks, and every Sin-Eater is full of ghost-manifesting juice and puts out an aura that makes ghosts more capable of manifesting.

                      It's magic. From neither a metaphysical nor a mechanical perspective is it particularly hard to swallow.


                      Resident Lore-Hound
                      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                      • #12
                        If a bullet or any kind of weapon is made especially to hurt a ghost I can agree. But if you say that ordinary bullets and blades can hurt ghosts too, it sounds a bit strange to me.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
                          If a bullet or any kind of weapon is made especially to hurt a ghost I can agree. But if you say that ordinary bullets and blades can hurt ghosts too, it sounds a bit strange to me.
                          The point of Physical Medium extending to things besides your physical body is that while you're wearing or using something, it gains that quality because you are made especially to interact with ghosts. By the same token, a ghost with a spectral machinegun can't treat you as though you were wearing a tee shirt just because the riot gear you're wearing isn't a memento.


                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
                            If a bullet or any kind of weapon is made especially to hurt a ghost I can agree. But if you say that ordinary bullets and blades can hurt ghosts too, it sounds a bit strange to me.
                            I'm inclined to agree with Satchel. Taken in conjunction with other things, I think the main purpose of this is that ghosts simply don't have the same danger to Bound as they do to other beings. Physical Medium allows that to apply even to Bound without offensive Haunts. As Satchel mentioned, it also helps the Bound protect themselves against mundane (not-numina-based) attacks from ghosts. If this was limited strictly to the Bound's body, it would really be more of a vulnerability than a benefit.

                            It may seem weird, but like many things in a tabletop RPG it's better taken at its most simple and fundamental purpose for the sake of story rather than carefully examined for hard rules on magic qualities.

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