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What would you want to see in a Sin-eater Chronicle book?

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  • What would you want to see in a Sin-eater Chronicle book?

    I looked, and couldn't find a similar thread. I've seen Promethean and Hunter versions, so let's do Geist. This game could use some love.

    I love Geist for it's themes and setting. I love the Underworld from the Upper Reaches to the Lower Mysteries and beyond. I love Krewes as cult + Gang. I love the Keystones and the way that Sin-eaters are bound to Geists.

    Unfortunately, Sin-eaters don't really have much drive. I wouldn't want the game to be as tightly focused as Werewolf, where it feels almost impossible to go off and do your own thing, but some more focus would really be nice. As it stands, other than being irritated by Ghosts, there's no reason for a Sin-eater to actually get involved in any Sin-eating. There's also the fact that they don't really eat sin.

    I've asked a lot of people about what they dislike about Geist, too, and I keep getting the same answers: There's no focus, there's no reason to do anything. Geists don't actually have a real, mechanical effect on Sin-eaters, and ghosts are annoying, but not a real problem.

    I hate the way that Krewes work, and how they're external to the characters as opposed to internal, the way that packs and cabals are. I hate that they change your Geist, and often the Geist becomes Santa Claus or something and tells you it always was, you just weren't ready to know.

    The mechanics are also scattershot, with Ceremonies for starting characters averaging out to 4 dots and Manifestations being clunky to use and getting a ton of dice modifiers, +3 to your starting Keys at the very least.

    I love Geist, but I feel like it needs a rewrite even more than Werewolf or Mage. But I also worry that because no one really likes it that it won't get one. Even if it does, we're looking at something years down the line.

    What do you think needs to be fixed? What would you want to see in a Geist Chronicle book?

    Also, Rum and Bones: The Kerberoi Chronicle has a nice ring to it, I think.

  • #2
    Firstly I wouldn't want it to be the Kerbeori Chronicles. Kerberoi are too limited to the Underworld for them to be the default core of most Geist stories. I'm torn between the Geist Chronicle and the Krewe Chronicle.


    As for my answer. I could probably say a lot but it's late so I'll start with the basics: I love Geist's themes as presented, I want the mechanics to support them. Sin-Eaters are suppost to be partying off-kilter mediums. The mechanics are uber-focused on fighting and cursing others. I want that fixed. PenDragon has a great mechanic for Manifestations (I call them Unleashings just to avoid overlap with Ghosts)

    I want Krewes to be something you build. Ethos, Metaphysics, Mythology, Aspects. Each is an independent merit that you can buy when you're ready, each is flexible in how and why you get it. Each ties into a core aspect of the game (Metaphysics change the rules for Ceremonies for example. You're a Voodoo Krewe, now your Ceremonies work like actual Voodoo)

    I want Geists to actually be a threat to your charachter. And I want various options for relationships; parters who like each other. A grudging give and take. A Sin-Eater who's arch-enemies with their Geist. All should be supported.

    I want Thresholds that actually are a proper splat, not just a list of ways you might die and Geists you might get. Splat like personality traits come because Geists of Threshold X have similar traits that Sin-Eaters must adapt too.

    I want Ghosts that can actually threaten Sin-Eaters (I'm thinking special ghosts built like Slasher's Undertakings).


    Most of this stuff has been written in the link I sent you; though the Ceremonies stuff can be found by following the index in my signature.



    “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
    My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
    Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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    • #3
      "Unlocks" might be a good term for them, in keeping with the Key and Threshold door symbolism. Actually, I might rename them that in my thing (I still need to get around to reading yours, since I'm lazy).

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      • #4
        I want it to be The Krewe Chronicle, with a focus on building your krewe and digging up the bones of those who have gone before. I want geists to mean as much as the Shadow did in Wraith. I want Archetypes to mean something and be valid grouping, not vague example philosophies. I want more things for sin-eaters to do other than be punk Ghostbusters; as it stands, the game is just a worse Werewolf with a few good ideas.


        Just call me Lex.

        Female pronouns for me, please.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
          as it stands, the game is just a worse Werewolf with a few good ideas.
          Much as I hate to admit it, this is true.

          What would you want to see out of Archeytpes and how would you want the Geist to be more like the Shadow?
          I'm actually thinking of doing away with Archetypes in my rewrite, and replacing them with "Carnivals", which would be Sin-eater's version of Orders/Guilds/Covenants/Tribes. I really feel like the "no major groups" experiment didn't really work well.

          As an aside, I'm not fond of "Krewe Chronicles"; according to DaveB, the "chronicle" part is the "outside context" problem for the character types. Krewes are within the context of the Sin-eaters. Really, Abmortals or Kerberoi would be apt for Sin-eaters, or at best Geists, as they're similar to the Fallen World in that they're the driving force of the gameline. But "Geist Chronicle" doesn't really have a nice ring to it, and rephrases the title.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Aspel View Post
            As an aside, I'm not fond of "Krewe Chronicles"; according to DaveB, the "chronicle" part is the "outside context" problem for the character types. Krewes are within the context of the Sin-eaters. Really, Abmortals or Kerberoi would be apt for Sin-eaters, or at best Geists, as they're similar to the Fallen World in that they're the driving force of the gameline. But "Geist Chronicle" doesn't really have a nice ring to it, and rephrases the title.
            This seems to be a mistaken association with one part of the statement Dave made.

            Originally posted by DaveB, Falling Down Article
            As most of you have noticed, the Chronicle Books are all named after the story catalyst in their respective games. Not necessarily the antagonist, but the thing that upsets the apple cart, disrupts the lives of the characters and causes a Story. The Strix throw the All Night Society off kilter and into chaos, the Idigam are an Outside Context problem the tribes aren’t properly equipped to fight. The God-Machine sends angels to do its inscrutable bidding, no matter who tries to get in its way
            So, Outside Context describes the Idigam, but the idea to focus on is that they disrupt the lives of the characters and cause Story. So the Strix and the Idigam are examples of actual antagonists, but the Fallen World is about the Mysteries they face.

            If one were to make a Chronicle Book for Geist, what the antagonist would be is an excellent question. However, if we're interested in Geist standing on its own two feet rather than being worse Werewolf with a few good ideas about Ghosts, then I'd hope they'd go for something more creative than a simple out of context problem.

            I think, one of the big things I've noticed is that the Geister want to experience living life, but as a side effect, attract ghosts who want them to solve their problems and help them move on. Those two elements don't really feel like they meet, so I'd like to see something connecting those two things. Moreover, the big impetus for story that's uniquely Geist focused seems to have to do with these Ghosts, so if I were to purpose a catalyst for Story, it would be coming to terms with their purpose and how it conflicts with their desire to live or whatever. Something like that.


            Leetsepeak's Ex3 Homebrew Hub - Hub of homebrew for Exalted 3rd Edition that I've made.

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            • #7
              I still need to explain the logic behind the idea for the Horseman Chronicles, don't I?

              We'll see if that or the hunter discusssion strikes me harder after shopping, assuming Gen Con updates don't devour the whole of today.


              Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
              Working on:Night Horrors: Enemy Action
              The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Aspel View Post
                I really feel like the "no major groups" experiment didn't really work well.
                Have you read Demon: The Descent?

                The Agenda splat for Demon is very loose socially but have meatier mechanics to reinforce their importance. I could see something similar working very well for the Archetypes in Geist. The conditions that each Agenda provide could be used similarly to great affect in Geist.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aspel View Post
                  I'm actually thinking of doing away with Archetypes in my rewrite, and replacing them with "Carnivals", which would be Sin-eater's version of Orders/Guilds/Covenants/Tribes. I really feel like the "no major groups" experiment didn't really work well.
                  I like Archetypes a lot.



                  “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
                  My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
                  Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post
                    The Agenda splat for Demon is very loose socially but have meatier mechanics to reinforce their importance. I could see something similar working very well for the Archetypes in Geist. The conditions that each Agenda provide could be used similarly to great affect in Geist.
                    Part of me is actually thinking of making Archetypes closer to Agendas, with each one having a Beat and Resolution condition, which can grant both "Ectoplasmic Beats" and chances at regaining Plasm. But at the same time I feel there are too many Archetypes, and some of them are too similar, while some of them feel like things that ALL Sin-eaters would do. There's a lot of talk about Sin-eaters who abuse their powers for material gain, yet only the Bonepickers get archetype bonuses--such as they are--for it? It isn't even really a ghostly trope. Likewise, just about every Sin-eater is an Advocate in some way, and helping ghosts pass on is a good way to regain Plasm.

                    Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
                    I like Archetypes a lot.
                    I noticed. I didn't really like that. Although on the other side, I did find the idea of a "Restful" Threshold interesting.

                    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                    I still need to explain the logic behind the idea for the Horseman Chronicles, don't I?

                    We'll see if that or the hunter discusssion strikes me harder after shopping, assuming Gen Con updates don't devour the whole of today.
                    The problem with that is that it would mean the Horsemen are real, or at least pertinent. That said if they were some distant but judging/shaming figures, like Luna is, then there'd be a little more impetus for Sin-eaters to police the border of life and death.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aspel View Post

                      The problem with that is that it would mean the Horsemen are real, or at least pertinent. That said if they were some distant but judging/shaming figures, like Luna is, then there'd be a little more impetus for Sin-eaters to police the border of life and death.
                      That's why I mentioned an explanation of the logic-they're more convienent short hand for how I understand Geist's greatest story catalyst, the factor that flips the tables the most on Sin-Eaters

                      Although, I must, within the spirit of the source, advise against suggesting that the Horsemen aren't real-you never know when they might take offense to that.


                      Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
                      Working on:Night Horrors: Enemy Action
                      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey

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                      • #12
                        Care to elaborate on that?

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                        • #13
                          One day, yeah.


                          Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
                          Working on:Night Horrors: Enemy Action
                          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey

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                          • #14
                            I would like to know more about the history of sin eaters and what were the like during times of great death. I would also like a manifestation system were you can mix powers similar to how blood and smoke did. Finally I would like to know how exactly can a giest help you out besides giving advice and insight.

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                            • #15
                              Mix powers? Where did Blood and Smoke do that? Do you mean the Devotions? Those actually existed before.

                              Also, not to plug my own work, but I actually started looking into the Aztec mythology and talking about how Sin-eaters were a part of that; Quetzelcoatl was a geist, and eventually became Bound to Cortez or a member of his Conquistadores, ransacking the New World. That's why Quetzelcoatl got co-opted into sainthood while the other Aztec Gods were vilified

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