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Veil Disturbance

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  • Veil Disturbance

    So, the book makes a big thing of the 'Veil' between life and death, and how the balance needs to be maintained and such. But it's kind of vague as to what 'breeches' it, and pretty mum on what happens if it is rent.

    How have you handled this in your games/ what do you think?


    My Commandments for GMs My Commandments for Players

  • #2
    The living and the dead do not mingle. This the one of the oldest of the Old Laws, so ingrained that it extends into the sunlit lands. Ghosts are mute and invisible to mortals without the memory of life which lets them feign living, and the lands of the dead are terrifying and alien to those with hearts in their chests and blood in their veins.

    That there are exceptions to this ancient law is part of the reason the Bound exist.

    (Also it's the usual poetics about how "Occult" Does Not Mean "Tell Everybody.")
    Last edited by Satchel; 01-14-2015, 11:25 PM.


    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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    • #3
      I imagine this is the original intend of the Abmortals. That those uncanny immortals, should be upsetting the balance between life and death, through their actions and existance.
      I also run my game, in such a manner that Geists usually take issue with Vampires, mortal Necromancers and Prometheans (Althoough the last of these have yet to show up, if they ever do), since Vampires and Prometheans by their very nature, upsets this balance. Necromancers upsets the balance by toying with powers they do not have authorization to toy.

      I supose Mommies would also fall somewhere into this spectrum, but I dont own that book.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Krobeles View Post
        I supose Mommies would also fall somewhere into this spectrum, but I dont own that book.
        First, it's Mummies. Mommies is the plural for how Americans pronounce the female parent (god knows why, sounds outright silly).

        So we have some examples of what upsets the balance, at least in the eyes of Bound. What about what happens when the balance is disrupted too much? Do ghosts begin spontaneously manifesting? Do Avernian Gates start being really easily opened?


        My Commandments for GMs My Commandments for Players

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Allan53 View Post
          First, it's Mummies. Mommies is the plural for how Americans pronounce the female parent (god knows why, sounds outright silly).

          So we have some examples of what upsets the balance, at least in the eyes of Bound. What about what happens when the balance is disrupted too much? Do ghosts begin spontaneously manifesting? Do Avernian Gates start being really easily opened?
          Are you implying that I didn't mean to say, that female parents upsets the balance between life and death? Parents create life, from inert material (as far semen and periods are inert, I guess). And its only female parents because the Kerberos are a part of the Patriarchy, I guess...

          Bad jokes aside, we haven't really gotten to that point in my game. I had this idea, that the ghosts would start to become restless. Next, agents of the Kerberos - mortal or otherwise - would show up to fix the violation of the old laws. If things got too out of hand, I had an idea for a Kerberos whose Dominion is Twillight, but who can only leave the Underworld in short periods of time and only when a specific Old Law is breached or its Dominion is in direct danger.
          You could let it work as a catalyst for some Cthonic being to creep back into the living world or something even stranger? "That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die."? :P

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Krobeles View Post

            Are you implying that I didn't mean to say, that female parents upsets the balance between life and death? Parents create life, from inert material (as far semen and periods are inert, I guess). And its only female parents because the Kerberos are a part of the Patriarchy, I guess...

            Bad jokes aside, we haven't really gotten to that point in my game. I had this idea, that the ghosts would start to become restless. Next, agents of the Kerberos - mortal or otherwise - would show up to fix the violation of the old laws. If things got too out of hand, I had an idea for a Kerberos whose Dominion is Twillight, but who can only leave the Underworld in short periods of time and only when a specific Old Law is breached or its Dominion is in direct danger.
            You could let it work as a catalyst for some Cthonic being to creep back into the living world or something even stranger? "That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die."? :P
            Ah, up until you noting it I wasn't sure if you were joking or not. That probably says something about the people I know. Glad to see you were, was slightly worried

            Oooh, I like the idea of an undying, unliving Cthonic being. Raises all sorts of questions... *grabs whiteboard and starts madly doodling*


            My Commandments for GMs My Commandments for Players

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Krobeles View Post

              Are you implying that I didn't mean to say, that female parents upsets the balance between life and death? Parents create life, from inert material (as far semen and periods are inert, I guess). And its only female parents because the Kerberos are a part of the Patriarchy, I guess...

              Bad jokes aside, we haven't really gotten to that point in my game. I had this idea, that the ghosts would start to become restless. Next, agents of the Kerberos - mortal or otherwise - would show up to fix the violation of the old laws. If things got too out of hand, I had an idea for a Kerberos whose Dominion is Twillight, but who can only leave the Underworld in short periods of time and only when a specific Old Law is breached or its Dominion is in direct danger.
              You could let it work as a catalyst for some Cthonic being to creep back into the living world or something even stranger? "That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die."? :P
              This is where Mummy steps in with the Old God, Anpu. It is the god of death and dying, but its domain is Twilight. The Old Gods are older than time and have inscrutable, often maddening designs. Even still, Anpu is the only Old God to have been seen with any frequency. While almost always silent, he does seem to interfere with the dead (including dead mummies). He is vastly powerful, and seems like the lovecraftian uberkerberos you're looking for.

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              • #8
                Screw canon gods, I'm going with a frog motif for the creature, or maybe cockroach (I wasn't that impressed with M:tC, either thematically or mechanically).

                Or hell, maybe go full Lovecraftian, a bunch of glowing spheres?


                My Commandments for GMs My Commandments for Players

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                • #9
                  Off the top of my head, if the balance is too much out of whack on either end, I think it would have an effect on the Avernian Gates... Too many ghosts end up getting into the Underworld and they close up some, making them harder to open, ala the Maelstrom in the 50s New Zealand Dark Era... The Underworld is getting too full, so the balance of souls needs to lie more into the world of the living before things balance out more.
                  Same as if there are too many of the living on top-side, then Avernian Gates and the like open all the easier, for longer... Ghosts get banished much more easily, though the living will also find themselves ending up down there.
                  Of course with this balance it sort of assumes a type of reincarnation happening in the world of darkness, that souls that pass on can reborn as new ones in the world of the living. Needs some work I know...

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                  • #10
                    Could be a decent explanation for the first and second World Wars. If you run a scenario set in modern times, you could have this be a very interesting plot point, seeing how the current political landscape is shaping up. Perhaps we're too many living souls and another war is comming to adress that imbalance?
                    This could also make for a strangely sympathetic Krewe of serial murderes. Its not that they enjoy killing, but if they dont kill, the war will happen all the sooner. Better they kill whoever they deem unworthy, and let the worthy ones live, right?

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                    • #11
                      It also makes me think if there is a 'balance' happening, that the ghosts of the Underworld really have souls/are souls, just as the living have them, for there to be a balance of souls to begin with. Its a bit 'Wraithy' but I acknowledge (especially when we see the post WW2 scene in Dark Eras) that the two world wars likely mussed the balance up some. Too many dead and the negative energies made the Maelstrom to lock up the Avernian Gates until the balance rectified itself. The Baby Boomers likely readdressed the balance, though of course how long will it last? Having another Maelstrom on the horizon is perhaps again, quite 'Wraithy' though it'd make a good campaign seed, I think.

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                      • #12
                        I dunno. It strikes me as having more to do with the volume of life or death coming at once (dSouls/dTime, if you will), that's the issue.


                        Genius: the Transgression 2E is a thing that's being worked on.

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