Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What's the difference? Sin Eaters vs Mortal Psychics

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What's the difference? Sin Eaters vs Mortal Psychics

    Other than the power discrepancy, why play Geist: the Sin Eater over a mortals game where the ST gives everyone a few relevant Unseen Senses, Medium, and the new Invoke Spirit merit for free? Make sure the Invoked Spirit can open gateways to the underworld, of course.

    That is, what themes, mood, feel etc. are touched on by Geist that are not touched on by such a game? What unique things does it bring to the table?

  • #2
    Have you read Geist? I don't mean that confrontationally, but more to establish whether your question is born of misinformation as opposed to a difference of opinion.

    I'll assume the former, as I have little way of persuading you if it's the latter.

    Geist is a very well done book in my opinion. The themes and tone of the book are really solid and pervasive throughout in a way that just draws you in and can't be mirrored by selectively picking and choosing merits that might mirror their abilities, however weakly.

    Saying that it has "great themes" is pretty useless though without delving into what those themes are. Geist is a game about second chances. It's a game that asks what you would do if you died, but were brought back. How would you spend your life, your eyes now open to the actuality that in the NWoD setting there is no real life after death, just a long slow dissolution, similar to Christian purgatory, but without the promise of heaven at the end. Not only that, but how would the undead specter now chained to your soul want to spend *their* second chance? They've clawed their way out of purgatory to make the pact and they want to *live* again.

    How do the two of you get along, inseparable, even death not proving a respite from their constant companionship. Does your once penitent religious character give into her hedonistic geist's whims and party all night long? Does your once debauched frat boy realize that there is more to the world than good booze, loose women, and fast cars? Every Sin Eater has died, at least once. How has that changed them, and how does constantly living with awareness of the ghosts and shades that surround them color their perception of the world?

    As the opening fiction says, Rum is the Drink the Dead Like Best. It's a game steeped in death that is fundamentally about life, the sort of vibrant, burning, sensual life that only comes from living with death.

    ________________

    My fanboy ranting over, mechanically, Sin Eaters are practically immortal. The only more durable Splat in NWoD are Mummies... and that's saying something. Sin Eaters can come back from being stomped on over and over again and have mechanics for reducing Agg damage to bashing. They are practically impossible to put down, which can be a blessing or a curse depending on how you feel as storyteller or player. Interestingly enough, I enjoy it as a storyteller. It paradoxically diminishes the incentive of resolving problems by violence... because if your enemies are equally indestructible you are just wasting time and resources better spent finding another solution.

    Secondarily, to diminish the abilities of Sin Eaters to "talk with ghosts" and "see ghosts" completely glosses over the sheer diversity of their abilities, from mirroring classic horror movie hauntings of all kinds to holding feasts that allow the dead one last walk in the living world.

    Furthermore, Geist explores the Underworld in NWoD more comprehensively than any book before The Book of the Dead and allows for actual exploration of its Stygian depths.

    There is so much more to go over and into, but if that isn't a clear enough list of differences on its own, then I'm not sure what else to say.

    Comment


    • #3
      Not to be too nit picky but the heaven and hell part of the equation of death is still left nebulous. Sin eaters for sure don't know what happens to ghosts that take care of their business and move on. Also, not everyone who dies lingers as a ghost. There are still some mysteries that even the sin eaters can't answer.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have read Geist yes, extensively. I'm positing the question because the question and the answer have value regardless of my personal beliefs on the subject. It's being used as a tool to zero in on Geist's themes and the unique things it has to offer. More specifically, I'm asking it in hopes of zeroing in on what different people find unique and flavorful about Geist once you get past the surface concept, because what I may find unique and different won't be the same as what you find unique and different, etc.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by omenseer View Post
          Not to be too nit picky but the heaven and hell part of the equation of death is still left nebulous.
          I'm not sure where you think I indicated that it wasn't. I said there wasn't a promise of heaven, not that there wasn't hope of it. And young sin eaters don't necessarily know that not everyone who dies lingers as a ghost.

          Comment


          • #6
            Mortal psychics can't punch ghosts in the face.

            Comment


            • #7
              The biggest things are scope and scale, but also source.

              Sin-Eaters, within their fields, are capable of fears far, far beyond anything a mortal psychic can be. Biokensis cannot equal what Shroud or Caul can do, and anything with Mediumship is blown away by Sin-Eaters. Also their ease of travel in the world and underworld are noteworthy. Overall, it is shooting a bullet vs. throwing it.

              However, it is also a quesiton of Source. Keys and Manifestations come from the Geist. This means Sin-Eaters lack the personal connection, but also lack the issues Psychics have, such as anti-psis or skeptical onlookers. They don't care if you believe in ghosts; honestly if you don't then you have less defense against them, much like challenging a Lost that you don't believe in faeries does nothing to benefit you and gives the Lost some options. So where it comes from is a major difference with metaphysical implications.

              Thematically, though, Sin-Eaters sort of mix psychis and hedge magicians with ghosts and crank up the power level. So in terms of trappings and theme, many powers, especially Ceremonies, look "Pop Occult" but really aren't. There is more going on.


              Onyx Path Moderator
              Forum Rules
              This is my mod voice. This is my goth voice.
              [Geist: Balance of Shadows ][ Vampire: The Conspiracy of Hrad Černá Hora ][ Scion: Bohemian Front][Changeling: Malibu Dream House] [Demon: Night Train Detective Agency] [WoD: The Golden Eagle]

              Comment


              • #8
                Power level.

                I think the title of your post, SoulGambit, was a rather broad interpretation of your actual question in the post.

                But the difference is, really, going to be power level. You could play a ghoul or a wolf-blooded, but you'll never have the capacity of a full member of those templates, though ghouls can get a lot of disciplines. And the mortal psychics aren't a 'lesser template' of Sin-Eaters, but at the core, dealing with ghosts is something they can do too. With some concepts from the Book of the Dead you could even have your mortal able to cross into the Underworld. But a mortal won't be working in symbiosis with the geist bound to them, or have the powerful abilities granted to them through it, like their limited form of immortality.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A mortal also has no real incentive to resolve a ghost's issues and help it move on. Sure, a medium might get sick of the voices and "get rid" of ghosts to get some peace and quiet, but there isn't any real reason why they can't just ignore all the dead people around them. Bound primarily regain Plasm by resolving a ghost's issues, pushing them to find and help the dead. Of course, if they aren't spending Plasm they don't need it, so they may not be under any real obligation, but there's certainly incentive. And, just like a medium may have a strong sense of duty and obligation towards the ghosts the can see, a Bound (or her Geist) may have a similar drive.

                  Much as a medium hears voices, though, she doesn't actually have a dead consciousness living within her mind. She doesn't have some other entity constantly with her, constantly pushing her to do something she may or may not want to do.


                  My Geist GMC Updates
                  My Infinite Macabre Goodies
                  Parasite Eve: The Third Birthday Chronicle
                  Shamelessly pimping my book

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SoulGambit View Post
                    I have read Geist yes, extensively. I'm positing the question because the question and the answer have value regardless of my personal beliefs on the subject. It's being used as a tool to zero in on Geist's themes and the unique things it has to offer. More specifically, I'm asking it in hopes of zeroing in on what different people find unique and flavorful about Geist once you get past the surface concept, because what I may find unique and different won't be the same as what you find unique and different, etc.
                    A Big theme in most world or Darkness lines, weather it be big or small, is that it kind of sucks to live in the WoD or have supernatual powers. This theme is often called Supernatural angst.

                    Sin-Eaters, while there are a few exceptions, and they do have a few downsides that have to be gotten used to, in general do not have Supernatural Angst.

                    And in the context of how someone becomes a Sin-Eater, those downsides don't seem so bad. I mean, if it was forced on you that'd be one thing, but all sin-eaters choose to make the bargain.

                    and considering that making the bargain saved their lives, most sin-eaters really have nothing to complain about.

                    There are exceptions, of course, Bound who are weak willed or who have particularly insane or monstrous geists, but in general there's little to no supernatural angst.

                    Relatedly, Geist has a rather celebratory theme that isn't quite shared by anything in the WoD, and in general is rather upbeat in spite of and sometimes because of the rather morbid and frightening themes it examines.

                    That's not something you get, by default, in a WoD game other than geist.


                    I'm an aspergic individual. This means that I can't imagine how others will react to situations. This has led to me accidentally offending someone, and has also led to me being less clear in statements than I thought I was. I'd like to apologize, and ask that others don't get mad, but just ask me to reword or clarify. Thank you

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      One of the things that initially put me off about Sin-eaters when I first knew about them was that superficial notion of them being "mediums with the power dials in overdrive". Clearly, while Vampire, Werewolf or Mage all represent iconic "monsters" that also include minor templates in their respective settings (ghouls, wolf-blooded, proximi, etc), Geist starts in the oppossite end of the spectrum: there is this familiar "medium" minor template, but in the upper levels there's this whole new supernatural society of "dead and back alive" mediums fused with ancient ghost-things partying and reveling with ghosts with an ease and skill that could be impossible without a profound knowledge of death and the deep below.

                      Personally, I'm not that excited about the way their powers are presented, but I have yet to read the whole thing, so I'll save my opinion for when I finish reading it.

                      All in all, it has grown on me, especially looking over some excellent Actual Play reports being posted in the internet.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zooroos View Post
                        One of the things that initially put me off about Sin-eaters when I first knew about them was that superficial notion of them being "mediums with the power dials in overdrive". Clearly, while Vampire, Werewolf or Mage all represent iconic "monsters" that also include minor templates in their respective settings (ghouls, wolf-blooded, proximi, etc), Geist starts in the oppossite end of the spectrum: there is this familiar "medium" minor template, but in the upper levels there's this whole new supernatural society of "dead and back alive" mediums fused with ancient ghost-things partying and reveling with ghosts with an ease and skill that could be impossible without a profound knowledge of death and the deep below.

                        Personally, I'm not that excited about the way their powers are presented, but I have yet to read the whole thing, so I'll save my opinion for when I finish reading it.

                        All in all, it has grown on me, especially looking over some excellent Actual Play reports being posted in the internet.
                        A realization I had recently might be another point it Geist's favor for you:

                        I am really not a fan of Haunting stories, I usually find them boring and not scary but I really (REALLY) like Geist and I only recently figured out why. Reading the comic Death Vigil is what finally did it for me. I don't much enjoy haunting stories, but I really enjoy Reaper stories. That's the classic monster that Geist really is based on, Grim Reapers. That revelations makes me love Geist even more now.


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post

                          A realization I had recently might be another point it Geist's favor for you:

                          I am really not a fan of Haunting stories, I usually find them boring and not scary but I really (REALLY) like Geist and I only recently figured out why. Reading the comic Death Vigil is what finally did it for me. I don't much enjoy haunting stories, but I really enjoy Reaper stories. That's the classic monster that Geist really is based on, Grim Reapers. That revelations makes me love Geist even more now.
                          Wow! I've just did a little Google search and I loved what I've read about this comic book so far. I'll definitely give it a read. BTW, what do you think are the main differences between DV reapers and Sin-eaters?

                          I'm going to give Geist a second chance, reading it from the start with a fresh perspective. After all, it is a game of second chances (bad pun totally intended )

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, they all make a deal with the same entity (The Grim Reaper or Bernadette or Bernie as she prefers) and that entity doesn't merge with them, she exists separately from them. They all really only have one power (Manifestation) but that's more of a story conceit. They don't have some of the peripheral powers either, like seeing when someone will die (at least it hasn't come up that they have that). They also don't have a fuel source or go to the underworld (again, at least in the story, its only had so many issues, so the overall metaphysics of it are only so explored).

                            Other then that and some setting differences, they could translate pretty well.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post
                              Well, they all make a deal with the same entity (The Grim Reaper or Bernadette or Bernie as she prefers) and that entity doesn't merge with them, she exists separately from them. They all really only have one power (Manifestation) but that's more of a story conceit. They don't have some of the peripheral powers either, like seeing when someone will die (at least it hasn't come up that they have that). They also don't have a fuel source or go to the underworld (again, at least in the story, its only had so many issues, so the overall metaphysics of it are only so explored).

                              Other then that and some setting differences, they could translate pretty well.
                              DV also has strong antagonists, which my group found Geist to be lacking.


                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X