Geist 2nd Edition Thoughts & Speculations

[Robert D]

With GenCon in the works, I know i'm thinking about the GenCon brochure forthcoming on Drivethrurpg, and what tid-bits it may give about the remaining Chronicles of Darkness lines yet to be given a 2nd edition: Geist & Mummy. With mummy still publishing 1st edition materials, I think of the two, Geist is the most likely to be given a 2nd edition after Hunter (which is in the early stages of the works). So I thought i'd share some thoughts & would love to hear some thoughts of potential mechanic/theme/ability changes. I loved the idea of Geist and enjoyed the 1st edition core, but it did feel like, with the old White wolf winding down, that the creators got a bit pressed for time and didn't get to flesh it out as much as they would like.

A few folks have made some truly awesome Fan 1.5 GMC Geist pdfs here in this forum,

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/geist-the-sin-eaters/911888-my-1-5e-geist-updates

Big shout out to both the link-makers here. Big fan . Other folks pondering the possibility of a 2nd edition Geist, I totally recommend you taking a look at these creative insights.

Perhaps this would be a Geist the Sin-Eater 2nd edition featuring the Abmortal Chronicle (always thought the abmortals were a good nemesis group for the Sin-Eaters, equally hard to kill antagonists who leave ghosts in their wake, wrecking havoc on the living & the dead.)

In Beast the Primordial, when the book discussed using the Integrity breaking points of other supernaturals to create more Lair chambers, there's a sidebar that specifically said a Werewolf's Harmony, a Demon's Cover, & a Sin-Eater's Synergy wouldn't work for these purposes. To my mind, this implies that the SinEater/Geist relationship is similar to the give and take between Flesh & Spirit in Werewolf 2E, with a middle score being preferable, a high score being too locked into the living world (difficult to use some manifestations, maybe control battles over the shared body like Johnny Blaze's Ghost Rider in the 70s?), and a low score being too locked into the Underworld (often getting trapped there or in Twilight, etc.).

With the thematic link to Werewolf of Duality of Human & Other (in this case ghost/shades rather than spirits), I imagine that the Ceremonial mystic rites of the Sin-Eaters would play a similar roll thematically (& perhaps mechanically, but with a big shift in focus to death, ghost & perhaps shadow control) to the 2E Werewolf's Spirit Rites.

The Thresholds I see as retaining their names and basic themes & Keys, though perhaps with Demon the Descent style Chthonic Beat (as opposed to an Arcane Beast from Mage) & resolution added in.

The Archetypes seem like they'd fit 2nd Edition mechanics better as Anchors (like a Vampire's Requiem & Dirge, or a Werewolf's Blood & Bone, or a Mage/Human's Virtue & Vice), perhaps something like a Carneval (outward funeral, playing off the New Orleans "krewe' link of the jazz parade tradition there, a "farewell to the Flesh": remembering the past life of a Sin-Eater - bone-picker/materialist, etc) & a Memorial (quiet, private funeral for the current, private person they are after the Bargain, their view of this second life - Celebrant, Pilgrim, Mourner etc.), & as suggested by a few on Geist forums, perhaps a third for the Geist?

To replace the Archetypes as a Social/Philosophical Splat, I would imagine something along the lines of a focus or duty held by members, but still having the loose connection between members that 1E Archetypes had. Examples being possibly some from the original Archetypes: Gatekeeper/Exorcist to maintain the balance & spaces of the living & the dead; Advocate to seek justice & peace for those that can't get it themselves, often the dead; Reaper/Fury to send those living, dead or otherwise off to the next world that can't be stopped otherwise; (new but related to old Necromancer archetype) Oracle/Mystic to gaze into the Underworld and the wider World/Chronicle of Darkness.

Geist has been incredibly unique among 1st edition CofD games in its supernatural powers (Manifestations/Key) structure. With 2nd edition making each game's abilities (Disciplines, Gifts, Arcana, Atavisms, Embeds, & forthcoming: Transmutations, Contracts, Endowments) more unique systems than just a standard 5 dot within each sub power system, I'm interested to see what happens.
Will Manifestations become basic abilities all Sin-Eaters have in a default mode & the Key becomes the game ability (allowing the Geist to modify a basic ability for a scene)?
Will the Elemental keys (given the move away from 1st edition's decision to give most supernaturals after Werewolf some measure of mental, elemental or animal control power -granted, very thematically appropriate for Changeling; but it has been specifically said by the Promethean 2E team leader that their powers have dropped the mental & animal control entirely to focus on the themes of alchemy & transmutation) be combined into a single elemental key (similar to Werewolf 2E's Elemental gifts), or removed, or be Threshold specific?
Will there be Threshold specific Manifestations as well as Threshold preferred Keys?
Will the Keys see a similar overhaul as Werewolf's Gifts & Changeling's Contracts have? (only a few inherent splat ones in 5 dots and the rest more based on some characteristic of the Geist or Synergy? OR all Keys having a dot rating 1-5, but only loosely connected to each other into theme groupings, not in a step-by-step power acquisition procedure? OR something else entirely? Maybe
Will the Caul become a standard, customizable ability, like the Demonic Form of Demon the Descent? Or perhaps the Geist gets cumstomized, and the Caul or other Manifestations allow the Geist's abilities to be used in 'human' form?

And (last one I promise. Sorry for being longwinded, been thinking on this for months) will there be a companion splat this time around? something comparable to a 2nd Edition Ghoul, Wolf-Blooded, Sleepwalker/Proximi, Fae-Touched, or Stigmatic? With Geist sharing the duality theme of human and other (like Changeling & the Fae), would it be reasonable for a Fae-Touched like individual (a natural medium, someone who clinically died, touched the underworld, but came back without a Geist bargain) to hold a piece of the Underworld's darkness in their soul and perhaps have a threshold based on their 'death' (like the fae-touched have a Seeming), granting them a Key and maybe one manifestation? These would be Orpheus, plural Orpheoi? (the mythology one, not the Classice WoD one, though there's a shared idea there of the living descending into the Underworld) style humans, who delve into the Underworld, but are not part of it to the extent of a Sin-Eater, lacking a Geist bond. Other names I could imagine for this possible character type would be: Ghost Walkers, Shade-Souled

Please share your thoughts on these thoughts & some thoughts of your own

[atamajakki]

Remember that the "[thing] Chronicle" is more about something that defines the line than just being a threat; Mage was the Fallen World Chronicle and Promethean was the Firestorm Chronicle.

Ideally, a Geist 2e would be built along the lines of a Krewe Chronicle, with more effort put into building your krewe's mythology and growing together as you all increase in power and understanding of death. My old group had the headcanon that Tier 3 krewes ascend beyond our reality to fundamentally alter the nature of the Underworld, and while that idea need not be stolen, I love the concept of doing archaeology on the krewes that have come before. Give the Twilight Network more legs and toss some example krewes out there, as Sin-Eaters seem to communicate with each other much more than the original book suggested.

[Robert D]

Remember that the "[thing] Chronicle" is more about something that defines the line than just being a threat; Mage was the Fallen World Chronicle and Promethean was the Firestorm Chronicle.

Ideally, a Geist 2e would be built along the lines of a Krewe Chronicle, with more effort put into building your krewe's mythology and growing together as you all increase in power and understanding of death. My old group had the headcanon that Tier 3 krewes ascend beyond our reality to fundamentally alter the nature of the Underworld, and while that idea need not be stolen, I love the concept of doing archaeology on the krewes that have come before. Give the Twilight Network more legs and toss some example krewes out there, as Sin-Eaters seem to communicate with each other much more than the original book suggested.

Thanks for the Thoughts! A fair point. I got stuck in the idea of enemy or threat rather than defining the line. Giving the Twilight Network more attention and build up would definitely emphasize the Sin-Eaters' ability to communicate & coordinate, despite having no set number of Vampire style covenants or Werewolf style tribes. I rather like the sound of a Twilight Chronicle.

[Robert D]

Heard on another Geist thread that Geist 2nd Edition has been confirmed!!!!! anyone seen a GenCon Aug 2016 Onyxpath brochure?????

[ajf115]

Heard on another Geist thread that Geist 2nd Edition has been confirmed!!!!! anyone seen a GenCon Aug 2016 Onyxpath brochure?????

I don't know why, but I think someone may be excited. That said, I'm now a hypocrite, as I'm really excited too.

[atamajakki]

Please please please bring back Shadowguiding for the Geist.

[milo v3]

Please ignore the people trying to turn Geist into Wraith.

[atamajakki]

Please ignore the people trying to turn Geist into Wraith.

There's nothing wrong with having someone else at the table play the alien voice in your head.

[milo v3]

There's nothing wrong with having someone else at the table play the alien voice in your head.

There is to some people.

Many people would prefer to roleplay their own geist rather than another player having so much control over such a major aspect of their character.

[malonkey1]

It can be an optional, you know, like a whole ton of other subsystems and rules.

[Taidragon]

I remember reading a few put together changes in one of the more recent books, general advice such as reducing the damage from Rage by 1 or the Shroud's armor bonus. However, I just can't find it in the books I have (could have sworn it was in Beast). Do you guys a) know what I'm talking about, so I know I'm not crazy, or b) think that they'll be implemented into the game proper?

[milo v3]

I remember reading a few put together changes in one of the more recent books, general advice such as reducing the damage from Rage by 1 or the Shroud's armor bonus. However, I just can't find it in the books I have (could have sworn it was in Beast). Do you guys a) know what I'm talking about, so I know I'm not crazy, or b) think that they'll be implemented into the game proper?

Beast has a section for converting unconverted gamelines to 2e, and as part of it, it says that attack modifiers and ballistic armour ratings should be reduced by one. So that's probably what you're thinking of.

It can be an optional, you know, like a whole ton of other subsystems and rules.

If it's an optional rule, that's fine. It's just that if it's a default rule it creates a rather different atmosphere and requires a lot more work and I know many people dislike having one of the biggest aspects of their roleplaying and character concept taken away from them.

[Taidragon]

Beast has a section for converting unconverted gamelines to 2e, and as part of it, it says that attack modifiers and ballistic armour ratings should be reduced by one. So that's probably what you're thinking of.

Many thanks; I guess I just mis-remembered a more detailed list.

[Robert D]

Now that it's officially on the table (pardon the tabletop pun), is anyone else itching to be a playtester or to submit samples of writing (in my case amateur writing)?

[White Oak Dragon]

It can be an optional, you know, like a whole ton of other subsystems and rules.

What kind of a subsystem would that need? It seems to me that all it would require would be for the Storyteller to say, "Okay, each of you controls the Geist of another character." That said, I would be fine with it if the rule was optional.