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[Dark Eras] Cheiron Group - Acheron Shipping & Trading Guild - invented Black Death?

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  • [Dark Eras] Cheiron Group - Acheron Shipping & Trading Guild - invented Black Death?

    As the topic states - How much is this possible? Here is relevant paragraph from Doubting Souls ( Salem Witch Trials ) chapter of Dark Eras book.

    Originally posted by Dark Eras, p. 361
    Some conspiracies, like the Malleus Maleficarum and the Aegis Kai Doru, are convinced that Acheron intentionally triggered the Black Death to wipe the slate clean. By the time the Black Death was in full swing, Acheron had protocols and resources in place to deal with the outbreak, and left Europe behind in favor of the West Indies and the Americas. Of all the hunter groups, Acheron suffered the fewest losses and, as a result, increased its holdings ten-fold.
    Beside making this kind of great accusations as secret PR war between Conspiracies, I see at least one problem with this thinking - 'Full Swing' of Black Death is circa 1360. West Indies ( i.e. Caribbean Basin ) was found by Christopher Columbus in 1492. It's over 130 years for Acheron to leave Europe they 'deliberately' contaminated. If they would made action like this, I would think that Cherion at most in time of few years would leave Old World. It's just seems rather illogical to even accused them on this argument.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 02-01-2017, 08:51 AM.


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  • #2
    Yeah, that wouldn't make any sense. I have to assume they were talking about the 17th century English outbreak.


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    • #3
      While on the topic: do you think they had access to their crazy monster implants yet, or is that a modern Endowment and they've mostly been a widespread Compact before the last century or two?


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      • #4
        Note that it implies that MM and AKD suspect Acheron of something, not that it was proven.

        I leave it you to draw conclusions from there...

        -MMM


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        • #5
          Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
          While on the topic: do you think they had access to their crazy monster implants yet, or is that a modern Endowment and they've mostly been a widespread Compact before the last century or two?
          I was thinking that Acheron could maybe be a little more like PtC Alchemists, creating their own variety of Elixers (very different from the Ascending One's) from monsters and their bodily fluids.


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          • #6
            Or a little more Stitched a monster arm on and hope for the best. I mean it seems they were pulling this con in multiple time periods on multiple worlds.


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            • #7
              If they are from an alternate world that has fallen to monsters, it's possible the Board recognized the signs and knew how to deal with it.

              Even if they aren't, they still are alchemists and pharmaceutical industry, at least now. It's likely they knew the dangers of the plague when word first got out.

              As MMM says, it also says something about the Malleus Maleficarum and Aegis Kai Doru. It doesn't seem like it would have been mentioned if it was just sour grapes, both of them seem to have a bad reputation around that time.

              Based on what we know of all three conspiracies, the Malleus Maleficarum and Aegis Kai Doru seem most likely to actually start something like the Black Plague, even if just by accident. One's led by a ghoul and targeting vampires who have a bloodline dedicated to spreading plague, though that's a stretch, I'm sure the Morbus have been connected to the Black Plague before. The other break into tombs and steal artifact, potentially letting loose curses. Comparatively the Cheiron Group, or at least Acheron, seems to be more invested in getting body parts.
              Last edited by nofather; 02-01-2017, 10:30 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Matt-M-McElroy View Post
                Note that it implies that MM and AKD suspect Acheron of something, not that it was proven.

                I leave it you to draw conclusions from there...

                -MMM
                But this accusation is soooo much stretch... Seriously, it's 130 years between Black Death and Age of Exploration. It's just sounds ridiculous. If even MM and AKD wanted to found scapegoat for their own failure, they better make more coherent story - in this variant it's just... weird. And not very convincing.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                  But this accusation is soooo much stretch... Seriously, it's 130 years between Black Death and Age of Exploration. It's just sounds ridiculous. If even MM and AKD wanted to found scapegoat for their own failure, they better make more coherent story - in this variant it's just... weird. And not very convincing.
                  you seem to think that people- especially paranoid occult societies of monster hunters- are rational beings. Here is the situation how I see it:

                  -Fact: Acheron suffered the least from the Black Death than any other conspiracy

                  -Fact: Acheron was strangely prepared to leave Europe behind

                  -Fact: Acheron has great interest in medicine and pharmaceuticals and know about plagues more than any other

                  -Fact: nobody trusts Acheron, and for some good reasons

                  -Conclusion: Acheron must be guilty for bringing the Black Death

                  It doesn't need to make sense. It doesn't need to be a rational way of thought. We are talking about a time in which people are getting trailed for being witches when almost all witches are outside of Salem. People don't trust their own family and friends- and you want them to trust some obscure conspiracy which succeed were others failed? A conspiracy which took over your assets, your relatives, your resources? So yeah, you go and blame them for planning a disastrous event 130 years ahead. You know it makes no sense, you know that it isn't even remotely likely. But that's the point of conspiracy theories- they make no rational sense, but if you embrace some principles of that flawed logic, things just seem to look... connected. After all, we are talking about an organization which has survived, in one form or another, from the days of ancient Greece. Can you really say that the powers behind Cheiron/Acheron/whatever they call themselves right now, really can't plan 130 years to the future?

                  Also, I can;t say I see Acheron as a compact. They have money, they have leadership, they have reach, they have resources, and most of all- they should have Endowments. If that wasn't the case, I assume Dark Eras would have noted it. Besides, Taumatechnology is not really technology. There is no logical scientific explanation for sewing monster arms, eyes, heart of brain into your body and that everything would be ok. Sure, maybe more people survive the operation nowadays thanks to scientific improvements- but the very foundation of that power is supernatural, and makes no sense. Allow me to quote Wicked Dead and say that occult, by its very nature, is a perversion of nature. There is no reason why Acheron couldn't take monsters apart and put their organs into other people during earlier Eras, as there is no reason why they can do it right now.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                    -Fact: Acheron was strangely prepared to leave Europe behind
                    I think you're missing Wyrd's point. That fact specifically doesn't make sense. Here's the particular paragraph...

                    By the time the Black Death was in full swing, Acheron had protocols and resources in place to deal with the outbreak, and left Europe behind in favor of the West Indies and the Americas.
                    So, do they know about the Americas 150 years before everyone else? That's possible I guess, but you'd think the author would make more of that.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Michael View Post

                      I think you're missing Wyrd's point. That fact specifically doesn't make sense. Here's the particular paragraph...



                      So, do they know about the Americas 150 years before everyone else? That's possible I guess, but you'd think the author would make more of that.
                      that was the "flawed principle of conspiracy theory" which I was talking about. If you say that they have planned the Black Death, you must also claim they knew about the Americas- it doesn't need to make sense, but it is Acheron we are talking about, and people need someone to blame. Modern day conspiracy theorists don't make much more sense. Sure, maybe the author should have developed it more- but the principle idea just shows how much distrust the other conspiracies has toward Acheron. They only assumption you need to accept to embrace that "theory" is that the powers behind Acheron know more than any other human in Europe about the world, and it isn't that far fetched. After all, they are not human.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                        After all, they are not human.
                        What, Cherion are not human? I always thought Board for Directors where immortal with replaced half of body - but still human. Or at least starting as such.
                        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 02-02-2017, 08:01 AM.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                          that was the "flawed principle of conspiracy theory" which I was talking about.
                          Then why did you say it was a fact?

                          In any case it's not a rumour. The narrative distinguishes between rumour and fact. The idea that Acheron created the Black Death is clearly labled as something the AKD and MM believe. That Acheron moved to the Americas during the Black Death is presented as a fact.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                            What, Cherish are not human? I always thought Board for Directors where immortal with replaced half of body - but still human. Or at least starting as such.
                            I've always thought of them as something more in the style of Wolfram and Hart, using fake personas and human operatives in order to cover up after themselves. Again, the closest thing we have to canon about them is the passage for C&C, which states they are inhuman beings from another world. I would assume that just as we don't really know who are the powers behind Cherion, the other conspiracies don't know either- and I could assume the MM on that Era blame them for worshiping the Devil, who also taught them the secrets of bringing the Black Death and whispered them about another continent on the other side of the world, waiting to be conquered by them.


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                            • #15
                              double post


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