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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by 2ptTakrill View Post
    Could be an example of the Shadow Name Merit, if the modern Ladder Mage learned of the history of the original and his organization he might have borrowed the symbolism of a centuries old compact that 'took power' from Vampires.
    ​In which book might we get the whole story, eventually?
    ​I also noticed that Fallen Blossoms gave away the secret of Nakatomi and it has little in common with the modern myths and does a 180 from the Hierarch's claims. That means his copy of Nakatomi's rules is truly fake.
    The thearch does not run or have any power over the design of the Hototogisu. The thearch is on the board and can access some of it's resources, but the thearch is not the ghoul Inoue Akio, who is the one behind the current incarnation of the Hototogisu.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    I will move this subtopic to separate thread in Mage forum as it is general games feature that is good to be talked extensively about - Nakatomi is just good example on this, but it works with most Mysteries.

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  • Second Chances
    replied
    Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

    So, a combined casting of Scrying and Postcognition, augmented with the Temporal Sympathy Attainment? That... huh. Could actually work.

    Still, I'm not sure whether the Edo mages of the past will just let a Scrying window from the future snoop on them, considering how time travelers are said to be rarely trusted. Nor will I be confident on whether what I'm seeing isn't a false vision planted by mages in the past or present, or not.
    Or perhaps the reason that this is such goddamn big mystery in modern Tokyo is that all attempts to use this trick fail. Not that the trick is a bad one, but that something prevents it and causes the beacons to trigger. Almost like there is a temporal version of the Ansho around Nakatomi...

    Nothing definite, just a thought/plothook.

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  • 21C Hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

    It would need then to wipe out all knowledge of Nakatomi from all Edo/Tokyo mages in area ( and probably most of Japan, as I assume the rest of country would know who is Hierarch of capital / and first Consillium / at the time ). Unless he takes a few dozens of Logophages at constant clearing of minds for whole generation to go for the Mystery as described in 2E corebook setting write up - I do not see very much this.
    * looks at the current Japanese right-wing government's attempts to edit out parts of their history where they were war criminals who collaborated with the Nazis and committed atrocities such as mass enslavement, forced conscription, military sex slaves, human experimentation and such

    There's no need for a full scale mind wipe to corrupt the truth. You only need a few records conveniently missing, a few witnesses willing or 'willing' to be silent, a good PR and political standing... the rest of the work will be done by ignorance of the future generations and inertia of established knowledge.

    Because it is human nature to distance oneself from the past. There's a reason why the past is harder to sympathize with, just like how it's harder to sympathize with distant locations.

    You do not need items directly related to Scry - you need item to exists in the same time period only. One Time mage casts Temporal Sympathy on Edo period item, then Space mage casts Spatial Sympathy on Tokyo area, to locate the Scrying Window. Tad-dam, we have direct events feed on creation of Edo Consilium and can see what Nakatomi was doing in there!
    So, a combined casting of Scrying and Postcognition, augmented with the Temporal Sympathy Attainment? That... huh. Could actually work.

    Still, I'm not sure whether the Edo mages of the past will just let a Scrying window from the future snoop on them, considering how time travelers are said to be rarely trusted. Nor will I be confident on whether what I'm seeing isn't a false vision planted by mages in the past or present, or not.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
    Records can be lost or contaminated, and duties can be forsaken or set aside. And if the current Hierarch and his ruling party benefit from obscured history, then they certainly will obscure history.
    It would need then to wipe out all knowledge of Nakatomi from all Edo/Tokyo mages in area ( and probably most of Japan, as I assume the rest of country would know who is Hierarch of capital / and first Consillium / at the time ). Unless he takes a few dozens of Logophages at constant clearing of minds for whole generation to go for the Mystery as described in 2E corebook setting write up - I do not see very much this.

    Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
    Yes, but low are the chances that the relics the local Consilium possess happen to be directly related to the issue they want to scry, and lower are the chances that they were not contaminated. Magical work is still human work, and humans are fallible beings.
    You do not need items directly related to Scry - you need item to exists in the same time period only. One Time mage casts Temporal Sympathy on Edo period item, then Space mage casts Spatial Sympathy on Tokyo area, to locate the Scrying Window. Tad-dam, we have direct events feed on creation of Edo Consilium and can see what Nakatomi was doing in there!
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 03-05-2017, 08:56 AM.

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  • 21C Hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    But two things are in consideration:
    1. From Edo Era to XXI century are circa 500 years of mages researchs. Athenea are always working in those times - Time mages in each generation can cast spells to assess their lore on Nakatomi and write on topics.
    Records can be lost or contaminated, and duties can be forsaken or set aside. And if the current Hierarch and his ruling party benefit from obscured history, then they certainly will obscure history.

    2. All you need to see in XXI century to Edo period is samurai armor or older scroll to use Temporal Sympathy. You will not told me that in any Japan Athenea is not storage any one of those items and sustained to modern times with Matter or Time magic.
    Yes, but low are the chances that the relics the local Consilium possess happen to be directly related to the issue they want to scry, and lower are the chances that they were not contaminated. Magical work is still human work, and humans are fallible beings.

    Leave a comment:


  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    But two things are in consideration:
    1. From Edo Era to XXI century are circa 500 years of mages researchs. Athenea are always working in those times - Time mages in each generation can cast spells to assess their lore on Nakatomi and write on topics.
    2. All you need to see in XXI century to Edo period is samurai armor or older scroll to use Temporal Sympathy. You will not told me that in any Japan Athenea is not storage any one of those items and sustained to modern times with Matter or Time magic.

    Leave a comment:


  • 21C Hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Also, if Mystery is solved in Edo, it should be also solved in XXI century. Mages of all Eras have Time Arcanum, don't they?
    Well, considering that affecting the past, which includes seeing into it, requires temporal sympathy to that period of time, and since temporal sympathy grows weaker the further you go back to the past...... I'd say that modern mages actually have a harder time figuring out what really happened in the distant past, more than mages of Edo.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Originally posted by 2ptTakrill View Post
    ​I also noticed that Fallen Blossoms gave away the secret of Nakatomi and it has little in common with the modern myths and does a 180 from the Hierarch's claims. That means his copy of Nakatomi's rules is truly fake.
    I must missed that on my read - could you point me to the quote on the matter? Also, if Mystery is solved in Edo, it should be also solved in XXI century. Mages of all Eras have Time Arcanum, don't they?

    Leave a comment:


  • 2ptTakrill
    replied
    I haven't read the whole book yet but so far I would have to say that Fallen Blossoms is my potential favorite.
    As one of the core settings we have more information about it than is included in this book.
    ​It is focused on one city making it easy to further develop the setting as a home base, while its location on the Shogun's roads make it easy to include the rest of Japan in a chronicle.
    ​I'm not big on Hunter but the example compacts really fit the setting. The Baijin wouldn't even need supernatural elements to fit in and play a significant role.

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  • 2ptTakrill
    replied
    Could be an example of the Shadow Name Merit, if the modern Ladder Mage learned of the history of the original and his organization he might have borrowed the symbolism of a centuries old compact that 'took power' from Vampires.
    ​In which book might we get the whole story, eventually?
    ​I also noticed that Fallen Blossoms gave away the secret of Nakatomi and it has little in common with the modern myths and does a 180 from the Hierarch's claims. That means his copy of Nakatomi's rules is truly fake.
    Last edited by 2ptTakrill; 03-04-2017, 11:59 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • 21C Hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by MachineIV View Post

    Could technically be two different names. The way kanji work, you could have thirty different people with the same sounding name, who all have technically different names because of the various readings
    For once, I support the completely mundane explanation.

    Leave a comment:


  • MachineIV
    replied
    Originally posted by LostLight View Post
    My theory is that "Inoue Akio" is not an actual person- instead, I think it is more in the lines of Yodogiri Jinnai's case from Durarara. That is, a circle of people who are using the same name through the course of history and lead an organization called the "Hototogisu". The exact nature of the organization and its leader change with the current Akio, and every once and awhile the organization fall- only for it to rise again by another who use the Akio moniker, to achieve new goals as the leader of a new Hototogisu.

    Oh, and there is a giant Cuckoo demon-goddess behind all of it- but never mind that :P
    That's a neat theory. Although all have a theme of theft or impostorship involved. That's important.

    Alternatives include but are not limited to:

    Could be a complete coincidence

    Could be a relative with the same name

    Could be the same guy

    The name could be a magical power, who gets stolen by new people

    Could just be an homage

    Could technically be two different names. The way kanji work, you could have thirty different people with the same sounding name, who all have technically different names because of the various readings

    That's just a few off the top of my head.

    Leave a comment:


  • LostLight
    replied
    My theory is that "Inoue Akio" is not an actual person- instead, I think it is more in the lines of Yodogiri Jinnai's case from Durarara. That is, a circle of people who are using the same name through the course of history and lead an organization called the "Hototogisu". The exact nature of the organization and its leader change with the current Akio, and every once and awhile the organization fall- only for it to rise again by another who use the Akio moniker, to achieve new goals as the leader of a new Hototogisu.

    Oh, and there is a giant Cuckoo demon-goddess behind all of it- but never mind that :P

    Leave a comment:


  • RomulusGloriosus
    replied
    Originally posted by MachineIV View Post

    There are things tying the two groups together loosely. But they're not the same. The Hunters did not become a modern corporation.

    I'm not going to spill it here. But think of it like the Knights Templar and the Freemasons. Sure, there are some associations, iconography, and other ties. But, they're not the same.
    Sounds like a story hoooook....

    Leave a comment:

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