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  • Originally posted by LostLight View Post
    considering that real life orthodox Judaism has certain problems at dealing with transexuals, it makes sense that Lilith's cult may be just as complicated about the subject. I do not know the subject well enough, however, so if you feel inspired you could make a sidebar about it and I'll check it out.
    Okay!

    The Long Shadow of Gender


    While the Cage of Shadows is in fact a militantly feminist group, and quite proud of their misandrist aspects (they worship the all-but-literal goddess of female contempt for male supremacy and temptresses, after all), they do have one major hole in their theology; gender is a spectrum. There's more than two of them, and what a person is born biologically as is not always how they identify.

    The cult is divided on this. On the one hand, a genderqueer person is, by definition, a violation of what is conventional, which to the proudly heretical is fundamentally a good thing. Traditionally, in Orthodox Judaism, one is the gender they were born biologically as, and so the transwoman is something impossible, no matter how much she continues to exist (which is why it is legal for a post-op transwoman to marry a woman in Israel). To the cult, this makes her an outsider, alien, a monster-and monsters are the children of Lilith the Rebel, fundamentally holy in a way no cultist who was born as female as she feels is. On the other hand, this also brings up a lot of thorny moral questions much of the Cage does not really want to think about. If someone who looks male is really female of spirit, does that mean that the regular ritualized abuse the Cage does to men has a chance of accidentally getting a woman in there? Women are meant to be rulers, after all, but a ruler who looks and functions like a subject (barring surgery) has more than a small chance of being treated as one, tempted and corrupted by what should be her own sisters. And that isn't even getting into the ones who lack such easy terms as "male" or "female" to begin with-with the spectrum comes those who are genderfluid (alternates pronouns) and outright androgyne (there is not a proper pronoun to refer to them), and dozens of others who exist far, far outside of the Cage's bigender worldview.

    The traditional position is (perhaps ironically), that they are liars. There is no such thing as a transwoman, or any of her binary-defying contemporaries; he (the traditionalists refuse to give the "thief" her preferred pronouns) is simply a more-cunning-than-average man who wants the power of the Cage and Lilith for himself. More progressive positions, those informed by modern psychology and yes, schools of contemporary feminist thought, holds a transwoman as an inheritor of Lilith, proof that not giving her the time of day and creating Eve as a rebound girl was an error on the part of God; here we have someone who by all rights should be-is-female, and is instead forced into an unnatural state of being that denies her what should be her right as a potential mother. She is sterile in a way even the Mother of Owls cannot be, forced into a biological role that is completely counter to her nature, and thus is kin to the First Wife without being directly related. These same progressivists still haven't figured out what all the other genderqueer types are in their view, but in all fairness, much of humanity in general (let alone Judaism in general) isn't even aware these people exist or have just become aware. They haven't really had time to develop their own general political view.

    As for transmen, however, both factions agree; if someone born female feels he's really a guy, and admits it, then he is admitting to being a servant and not a ruler. They respect his self-awareness, and will treat him absolutely no differently. On the plus side, this does mean more enlightened conspiracy theorists can point to the brutalized transmen and say they're really not a conventionally feminist cultic conspiracy.
    Last edited by Leliel; 01-13-2018, 03:32 PM. Reason: Being as careful as possible, and using real dogma.


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    • Originally posted by LostLight View Post
      ​Also, Reaper Verse, where can I find the additional text you added to the Silver Syndicate? I want to add it to their writeup, as it was really cool. I alsio have thoughts about styling Concrete Beast as a local Spirit Noble with a Numina which allows it to grant Honorary Ranks to chosen mortals or something, which may be cool to add.
      Could you be more specific? Which additional text?

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      • Originally posted by Reaper Verse View Post

        Could you be more specific? Which additional text?
        you know, the Enemy/Factions/Hunters sections. I really liked that added material, and wanted to add it to the "official" writeup (with credit, of course).


        My Homebrew Signature

        "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

        I now blog in here

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        • Originally posted by Leliel View Post

          Okay!

          The Long Shadow of Gender

          most of it looks like a good addition to the group, considering that they do need to deal with such subjects, and may help for trans people who wish to use the group in their game (I'm still waiting for a Theater of Tragedies sidebar about trans people. It would be a great addition to them, considering their crossdressing and identity themes, but I always prefer to not write about something I do not know well enough, and I do not know the struggles that a trans person has to deal with). The only thing that a bit bothered me was that at first, quick read it seemed like you said that Judaism call trans people as monsters- in a second look it clears up that it is the view of the cult, but first impression is always a risky thing to deal with. Nothing that can't be solved by more careful wording.

          Just to note, Orthodox Judaism, which is what the Cage base their heresy upon, holds the view that the gender to which the person was born to is their gender even if they go through the surgery and change it. That's why in Israel, according to some trans people I talked with, a trans woman can marry another woman, because she is not a woman at all. Again, complicated relationships. Just to give you a reference for the canon which the heresy defies.

          On an unrelated note, what do you think about changing the name of the cult from English to Yiddish? It makes sense for them, considering their origin- even though they may use hebrew, but Kluv HaTselalim may sound a bit awkward.


          My Homebrew Signature

          "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

          I now blog in here

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          • Thanks. And yeah, reading it-yep, that was imprecise wording. The cult thinks being a monster is a good thing, but yeah, reading it again it seems like Jewish mysticism is calling them monsters, which isn't what I meant.

            And probably give the Yiddish translation of their name at least (say it's "Kluv HaTselalim" in the original language but use the English name primarily).


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            • Originally posted by LostLight View Post

              (I'm still waiting for a Theater of Tragedies sidebar about trans people. It would be a great addition to them, considering their crossdressing and identity themes, but I always prefer to not write about something I do not know well enough, and I do not know the struggles that a trans person has to deal with).
              That's mostly why I've stalled on working on that. I know it is certainly a theme that they could be used to explore but I am not really sure that I'm someone who can handle it sensitively.

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              • Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                you know, the Enemy/Factions/Hunters sections. I really liked that added material, and wanted to add it to the "official" writeup (with credit, of course).
                The copy of the Silver Syndicates that is accessible through Google Drive should contain all of the changes. The version history states that the changes were made anonymously, but I believe that they were made by Flyboy254.

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                • Originally posted by Reaper Verse View Post
                  I believe that they were made by Flyboy254.
                  *Wearing giant fake mustache* Who is this Flyboy254? I know nothing about this man.

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                  • Can I help you guys with something. I like this project you guys are doing preserving and finishing fan-made stuff. Pm me if there's any there groups you aren't working on so I can make a list of things I can finish that won't interfere with the fan book. And if anyones working on the Zealot inform me of that too.

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                    • Got two more pieces up. One is for Hakollel shel Hamerkava. The other is for SRO.





                      Originally posted by Pierrew View Post
                      Can I help you guys with something. I like this project you guys are doing preserving and finishing fan-made stuff. Pm me if there's any there groups you aren't working on so I can make a list of things I can finish that won't interfere with the fan book. And if anyones working on the Zealot inform me of that too.

                      At this point, we do have a working list of groups that are considered fully finished and groups that, for the most part, won't make the cut. Basically, most of the grunt work is art and editing.

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                      • I like the work with the golem, looks perfect for what the point is.

                        SRO looks great, but is that meant to be an ad for the hunter community only?

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                        • It's definitely supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek parody of insurance ads. Figured that the images can be considered acceptable breaks. If not, I can always revise the text to be more like an insurance company marketing towards paranoid spiritualists who want to avoid hauntings rather than making it explicit.

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                          • I like Hakollell, but why not use a hebew inspired font for them? Something like: http://www.1001fonts.com/sefer-ah-font.html http://www.1001fonts.com/sholom-font.html or http://www.1001fonts.com/kanisah-font.html

                            All three are free for personal use.


                            “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
                            My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
                            Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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                            • All honesty, I tend to avoid fonts like that. A little to on-the-nose and cheesy for my tastes. If anything, I could have the name of the organization in Hebrew like how the Starlight Guardians are in Japanese.

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                              • I just feel there should be some twist to the font. It's a very mundane font, and less occult groups like Project Thoth get non-mundane fonts.


                                “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
                                My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
                                Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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