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  • Las mysteres question

    First, i would like to clarify I have no problem with them being a very loose conspiracy (like the cainites) and that each individual cult interprets what the spirits are in their own way (priest, djinn, etc.).

    However, is it just me who thinks these guys need some revising? Once again, while I don't mind loose conspiracies, it seems NONE of the cults are actually aware of each other, yet ALL of them are on the conclusion that the pure are the "good" werewolves, it just does not make sense to me and is really pushing what it means to be a conspiracy

    EDIT: Even the cainites have some inter-connectedness through teaching of the rites of denial and a secret informant

  • #2
    Les Mystères deals with spirits, who are policed by non-pure Werewolves. So spirits like Pure Werewolves better. Since they are essentially spirit ridden (a very very bad thing to be from the perspective of a Werewolf), they naturally become enemies of non-pure Werewolves who see them and go "I'd better put a stop to that!". If someone is constantly trying to stop you, of course you see them as the enemy. It makes sense that they would all think the same thing about that specific topic.

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    • #3
      Ok, well what about when they see pure killing humans indiscrimately (admittedly, forsaken are capable of the same) and what about individual cults learning of totem spirits, spirit master werewolves, and encountering spirits on friendly terms with forsaken?

      Also hard time getting wi-fi, that's why response was late

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      • #4
        Obviously, if a werewolf is killing indiscriminately then they are a bad guy and must be part of the badguy faction that totally isn't the pure.

        Because Forsaken don't like people getting ridden. They see the Lemys and say "I better put a stop to that immediately!", and then proceed to attempt to stop it immediately for their own good. For a comparison, lets say there are a group of firemen who put out fires. They are obviously the good guys, fighting the bad guys who like to start fires. Now lets say you are a person who routinely sets himself on fire to fight evil. You don't think it hurts you, and the fire says its a good thing, and your religious practices have people setting themselves on fire. But whenever you walk around town after setting yourself on fire, the fireman blast you with water hoses trying to put it out! They attack you just for being on fire, so they must be the bad guys. Sure, they sometimes start their own fires at the firehouse BBQ, but these are "safe" and "controlled" fires in their opinion, so they are OK to have around.

        The thing is they really don't know a lot about spirits. Like at all, one of the examples believes them to be a side effect of alien abductions. The Spirits say "Those mean werewolves are trying to hurt us!", and said mean werewolves proceed to attack you for being spirit ridden, then it is very believable that they are the bad guys. Adding into the fact what the Truth sidebar says-the Spirits are basically using them as fleshy battle-mechs to fight werewolves with. They are being influenced by spirits to fight against the werewolves the spirit doesn't like, the Forsaken ones. Said wolves being friendly with Spirits is obviously just enslaving them, easy to say given the comparatively tight leash they are on.

        The connecting thread of LesMys is the spirits, and while there is limited communication with the other cells, there is plenty of communication with those spirits. Since all those spirits tell the same story, why wouldn't they all believe the same thing?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
          Ok, well what about when they see pure killing humans indiscrimately (admittedly, forsaken are capable of the same) and what about individual cults learning of totem spirits, spirit master werewolves, and encountering spirits on friendly terms with forsaken?
          Well, cults and religions don’t exactly foster rational responses, do they? They tend to go for the “deny” option when faced with facts that cause cognitive dissonance, after all. Especially when spirits with all their mind-influencings are involved.


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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          • #6
            I was going to agree with you, but then I went back and read their entry. I think it actually answers these issues.

            However, is it just me who thinks these guys need some revising? Once again, while I don't mind loose conspiracies, it seems NONE of the cults are actually aware of each other,
            Well, firstly, they are aware of each other. It talks quite extensively about how they relate to each other. Also, I get the impression that Les Mysteres are intended to be almost a minor template like the Lucifuge. Whilst they don't agree with each other about what they're doing, they still recognise each other as essentially the same. That means they don't really need an overarching organisation.

            Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
            yet ALL of them are on the conclusion that the pure are the "good" werewolves, it just does not make sense to me and is really pushing what it means to be a conspiracy
            They clearly don't think of them as 'good'. The Pure are merely those Werewolves that agree with Les Mysteres and can be worked with. It's specifically mentions that they still don't trust them.

            Also, personally I'd prefer an idea be implemented well than that it be forced to conform to rules on what counts as a conspiracy.

            what about individual cults learning of totem spirits, spirit master werewolves, and encountering spirits on friendly terms with forsaken?
            They do. The difficulty is that firstly, not enough of them do, and the network tends to ostracise Mystere who do. Secondly, it doesn't make them any more compatible with Forsaken belief systems.

            It's pretty clear that Mysteres seem to have an inherent sense that the Shadow and material should be closer together, it's part of what they are. The Forsaken are dedicated to keeping them separate.


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            • #7
              Tangentially related; “Shadow Occultists” posted by Acrozatarim in the Werewolf forum look like an excellent way to beef these guys up like I already mentioned there. And diversify their motives; Conspiracy-level hunters need some hefty means to fight back the night (and to sate their lust for power/knowledge), and if the Forsaken would deny them their prizes, well, they’re getting in the way of the Vigil. And so they too are the enemy.


              MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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              • #8
                Thanks for the answers guys, I've re-read the mysteres and was very much very wrong about communication with other cults, and did not think about how forsaken truly do just attack first, questions later with spirit ridden.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
                  Thanks for the answers guys, I've re-read the mysteres and was very much very wrong about communication with other cults, and did not think about how forsaken truly do just attack first, questions later with spirit ridden.

                  Usually is "attack first, questions never".

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                  • #10
                    True lol. Actually I do have one more question.

                    Is it possible for there to be mysteres groups that are exposed to loci areas in what are firmly forsaken territory? What would the spirits tell the mysteres of the werewolves then?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
                      True lol. Actually I do have one more question.

                      Is it possible for there to be mysteres groups that are exposed to loci areas in what are firmly forsaken territory? What would the spirits tell the mysteres of the werewolves then?
                      "Please, help us against these oppressive werewolves. They are forcing us into servitude and playing nice." And other spin.


                      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                      • #12
                        Fair enough. What about a forsaken totem or even a spirit wolf

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Michael View Post
                          Whilst they don't agree with each other about what they're doing, they still recognise each other as essentially the same. That means they don't really need an overarching organisation.
                          I personally think dropping this element would be better - it doesn't really make sense that a group practicing a screwed up understanding of Voodoo, an angel cult, heralds of the Benevolent Space Brothers, dedicated servants of the family ancestors, and those empowered by the spirits of the roads to guard travellers would all think they're the same thing because their powers are similar. Instead, make Les Mysteres a type of conspiracy rather than a single, even loose, one - the writeup describes the screwed up understanding of Voodoo version, but include a sidebar about how there are similar cults that understand the spirits and rites differently.

                          They clearly don't think of them as 'good'. The Pure are merely those Werewolves that agree with Les Mysteres and can be worked with. It's specifically mentions that they still don't trust them.
                          To put it another way, the Forsaken are the werewolves who must be opposed as a religious duty, while the Pure are werewolves who might be opposed out of a sense of humanity.

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                          • #14
                            I dunno, there's something about the fact that the confederation of strange-things-from-beyond speakers realizing that they all do the same sort of thing and it pays out in the same sorts of places that fits. I mean, hell, happened with the Diamond Orders, no reason it can't happen with various spirit cults.


                            Sean K.I.W. Steele, Freelance Writer
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                            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                            Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
                              I personally think dropping this element would be better - it doesn't really make sense that a group practicing a screwed up understanding of Voodoo, an angel cult, heralds of the Benevolent Space Brothers, dedicated servants of the family ancestors, and those empowered by the spirits of the roads to guard travellers would all think they're the same thing because their powers are similar. Instead, make Les Mysteres a type of conspiracy rather than a single, even loose, one - the writeup describes the screwed up understanding of Voodoo version, but include a sidebar about how there are similar cults that understand the spirits and rites differently.
                              I more or less agree, though I'm not sure about it not making sense. It's explained coherently enough, it's just maybe a bit contrived, and I mean the same could be said for a bunch of the C&Cs.


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