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Defense and Firearms clarification

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  • Defense and Firearms clarification

    In our game (using 2nd ed), we have always played that in melee with a gun user, the melee person gets a bonus to their defense (wits/dex + athletics) equal to (gun size + 1). I felt that was clear in the blue book when it said it was a bonus. The hurt locker pg 130 makes it seem like it is not a bonus, but it makes up your entire defense against the firearms user. "Opponents gain
    a Defense equal to the gun’s (Size + 1) against close combat firearms attacks." If that is the case, that means a sword ninja guy with a high defense is instantly dropped to a max of 4 defense. So, this may sound weird, but if a max defense of an opponent is significantly dropped when my char uses a gun in melee, what advantage is there in ever using a sword?

    Is this a purposeful defense drop so that you will grapple an opponent or be super sneaky?

    Basically, is defense against firearms a bonus (meaning you retain your normal), or is it set to the size of the gun+1



  • #2
    Guns by default deny their target the use of their normal defense, unless an ability states otherwise. As such, the bonus from being in melee for most combatants is practically speaking, the sum total of the victim's Defense.

    As a general rule in Cofd, the primary advantage of close range combat is that it's considerably easier to stack assorted bonuses from merits, powers etc. All other factors being equal, Guns are better than everything else. (though "all factors being equal" is pretty uncommon outside of Mage.)

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    • #3
      Hurt Locker's rules are optional, so by default, the the CofD core rules apply (it's a bonus), though it's worth considering Hurt Locker's options, because a lot of them are better IMO.

      You can also reconcile these a bit, since the Hurt Locker rule in question applied with the modified range band system for combat positioning:

      Use the CofD core rules when essentially touching: actually so close that the non-shooter could be closer to the shooter than the muzzle of the gun (justifying the best Defense against firearms). Then use the Hurt Locker version while in Close Range, but not body-to-body. Close enough that the target can try to move around and not get shot, but only a bit.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by adonus View Post
        In our game (using 2nd ed), we have always played that in melee with a gun user, the melee person gets a bonus to their defense (wits/dex + athletics) equal to (gun size + 1). I felt that was clear in the blue book when it said it was a bonus. The hurt locker pg 130 makes it seem like it is not a bonus, but it makes up your entire defense against the firearms user. "Opponents gain
        a Defense equal to the gun’s (Size + 1) against close combat firearms attacks." If that is the case, that means a sword ninja guy with a high defense is instantly dropped to a max of 4 defense. So, this may sound weird, but if a max defense of an opponent is significantly dropped when my char uses a gun in melee, what advantage is there in ever using a sword?

        Is this a purposeful defense drop so that you will grapple an opponent or be super sneaky?

        Basically, is defense against firearms a bonus (meaning you retain your normal), or is it set to the size of the gun+1
        You had it pretty close.

        Hurt locker: Defence = Gun size +1

        Default: Defence increases by gun size *-1*, can use defence as normal.

        In this case default generally works smoother for what you want to do. The hurt locker rules have some funny glitches, like your sneaky ninja character having the same Defence as an infirm old lady, and that infirm old lady actually having a higher defence than she would normally be allowed so long as she is trying to keep the gun out of her face.

        You could argue that the CoD rules are trying to say basically the same thing as the Hurt Locker rules, with the -1/+1 change, though I have never read it that way. The default 1E rules say you get to use your defence as normal. Maybe this is why there are a ton of gun user's in the world but few sword ninjas? Unless the sword ninjas are really good at hiding...

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