Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Debate Valkyries Vampiric patrons.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post

    Correct, it’s a very prominent oWoD thematic point that mortals are only allowed to think they’re in charge of anything. Luckily CofD 2e has a good track record so far of dropping bad oWoD legacy code like hot potatoes.
    1st Edition OWoD did that. Revised edition is roughly on par with CoD. Vampire anyway, Mage is a bit more conflicted when it comes to how powerful the Technocracy is (to the point that the Revised Convention books give alternate history reads depending on which in-universe histography one puts faith in).


    Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

    Comment


    • #92
      You all understand that what people here argue about is as important to VALKYRIE's themes and regular player experience as the Order of the Southern Temple attempts at making prometheans to assist the hunt, or Cheiron hiring monsters, right? Like, something which could be easily removed from the the setting without any consequence on your gameplay any more than other plot hook?

      Feel free to keep debating this, sure, but just to make sure you all know the significance of the subject, unless 2e would do some big, dramatic change about it.


      My Homebrew Signature

      "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

      I now blog in here

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Nicias View Post
        There is a difference between it being a regular problem for a citizen and it being something insignificant for an individual officer/agent/etc. Everybody has to deal with corrupt officials, but that doesn't mean every official is corrupt.
        That's not really my issue. It's the idea that someone simply being a citizen is likely to stop the secret paramilitary member caving their face in with their rifle.

        The arc suggested by a lot of the TFV material in C&C is, in fact, about growing disillusioned with the state of your agency and what you'll do to change it. It's literalized as vampires, because this is a Hunter game, but it is very much about confronting corruption.
        I agree, I said as much on page 2.


        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Michael View Post
          That's not really my issue. It's the idea that someone simply being a citizen is likely to stop the secret paramilitary member caving their face in with their rifle.
          While I'm fuzzy on the logistics of "carving" (did you mean "cave"?) someone's face in with a rifle, I can tell you that who you would shoot and under what circumstances you would shoot them is a complicated subject oft discussed by members of the military.

          It was also part of the joke during Jay's hiring process at MIB.

          If you run TF:V as nothing more than a Vampiric catspaw filled with overgeared thugs, then, yeah, there probably aren't too many constraints. But if you run them as an elite secret force made up of military and police elite, then who they're fighting and why becomes a lot more important.

          Like, I'm sure some probably don't care, they're in it to kill monsters, but institutionally TF:V canonically takes an "observe and document" approach until specific harm is being caused.


          Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Michael View Post
            These are the same thing, you just rephrased them.
            They’re absolutely not the same thing unless you think there’s no way to have powers without also having monsters pulling your strings.

            Originally posted by LostLight View Post
            Feel free to keep debating this, sure, but just to make sure you all know the significance of the subject, unless 2e would do some big, dramatic change about it.
            When the majority of Conspiracies have the same plot hook that makes a statement about the game and setting as a whole, and that statement is “The monsters run the show and all your characters are patsies.”

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post

              When the majority of Conspiracies have the same plot hook that makes a statement about the game and setting as a whole, and that statement is “The monsters run the show and all your characters are patsies.”
              First, you need to define "monsters" and "running the show". The MM, for example, are run by a ghoul- but ghouls are still human, and he is free from vampire manipulation. The Lucifuge are ruled by the spawn of the devil, but everyone are monsters and that is the point of the conspiracy. No one knows who or what pulls the strings in the Cainte Heresy. The only conspiracies which are openly controlled by some supernatural influence are the KoSG, the Mysteres, KoSA, and the Lucifuge + Otodo (which, again, don't really count). Those which are controlled by an inhuman being are the MM (which, again, I wouldn't count free ghouls), Hototogisu (again, I think he is a ghoul and it doesn't really count) and Cheiron. Those which are aware of the existence of the supernatural powers (and in some cases, those are literally Power that Be, like the Faceless Angels and the God Machine) are also aware of their manipulation, and try to work with that. And then, you have Valkyrie, who are just funded by some vampires, giving them some influence on the group but are far from running it.

              In short, no, monsters are far from running the show for most of the conspiracies in Hunter- I would give you Cheiron, the Mysteres, the KoSG and the KoSA. That's four. The rest are just people who are doing terrible things for very, very human reasons.

              EDIT- on the other hand, I won't even count the KoSG. Sure, they are influenced by dark gods, but the Faceless angels aren't really aware of their existence and are, well, gods. God may only be a monster you bow to, but they are far to high to care about you. Everything the Knights are doing is because of their own mad choices and understanding of reality.
              Last edited by LostLight; 05-23-2019, 03:46 AM.


              My Homebrew Signature

              "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

              I now blog in here

              Comment


              • #97
                Mild necro, but I have in a game played around with the idea of TFV being funded by a secret cabal of vampire. One of the members of TFV's director board was a Kindred who represented their interests. We got far enough the reach the reveal... but then not far enough to reach the additional reveal that their vampiric backers were themselves part of a mysterious Kindred conspiracy known as VII

                That's right, the TFV is secretly controlled by vampires who manipulate them to do their terrible bidding of... killing all vampires!!!

                Comment

                Working...
                X