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Why Are Slasher So Popular and why are they returning in Second edition?

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  • Why Are Slasher So Popular and why are they returning in Second edition?

    I hate Slasher movies because of they Reactionary Morals of killing teenagers that had Sex and do Drugs.
    Especially the Madonna-Whore thing with the Final Girl who Survived being “a Good Girl” who didn’t have sex.

    And the weird ableist and Classist shit about Slashers both in Hunter and in Slasher films see Leatherface being a Poor Hillbilly because white trash haha.


    The ableism This is seen in the Slashers Book with Freaks .

  • #2
    Congrats on hating things I guess. Want a medal for your opinions? I'll start on the paperwork.

    Slasher movies are a classic type of horror, "Some crazy guy kills people". People can be scared of monsters and the like, but at the end of the day (night?) vampires don't exist. Ghosts and werewolves and whatever else you have in your horror movie don't exist either. Fake things can be scary as long as the movie, book, whatever does it well, but once you get a chance to think about it the fear goes away pretty easily. Serial killers are real, so thinking about them rationally doesn't really help much. That is probably what sets it apart from other monsters.

    As for all the slasher tropes, they're mostly hitting all the taboos they can. Taboos against violence, sex, whatever. Easy way to make people feel uncomfortable and afraid I'd guess, though I'm not really an expert on horror.

    They are returning for the second edition because of course they are. Konradlejon not liking something isn't the metric they use to decide what book gets published >_>

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    • #3
      Slashers are popular because they're well constructed antagonists for the Vigil line regardless of the name. Slashers pull from far more than just the Slasher movie genre, and I think you're overusing genre tropes to slam the whole genre (and I don't really want to get into a literary style debate on how to interpret things like classism in Slasher movies, but we can I guess), and not at all talking about how they work in the books.

      Also... the CofD are horror games, and horror fiction has a very problematic streak to it because it's designed to make you uncomfortable. The issue is execution.

      For example, Alien works just like a Slasher movie (even if people prefer to compare it to haunted house movies)... an killer stalks the crew, killing them off one by one, until the Final Girl takes the killer out. But it's not about teens, there's no reactionary morals, no ableism, and the classism in the movie is an explicit element as the Alien franchise has constantly been about how the upper class lets the working class suffer exposure to danger for their profit.

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      • #4
        I'm going to preface this with i agree with you, I don't like Slasher movies, both for the reasons you mentioned and just i'm not a brave person

        HOWEVER, I like Slashers in CofD and the idea of Serial killers as a focus (and even as playables) for several reasons.

        1. Slashers allow you (and anyone in the story who deals with them) to deal with an enemy that is fundamentally human and yet also 100% a monster, which provides many parallels and serves as a foil to the rest of the CofD world

        2. They provide a distinct parallel to Hunters who have to ask how different they actually are, and what it means to put serial killers and a random vampire under the same umbrella.

        3. They allow the players to look at someone who is fundamentally capital-E Evil in a sympathetic and even human light, without taking away the fact they are Evil.

        4. It allows you to subvert or even just straight up ignore any of the ways that a quote on quote "typical slasher" should act, which allows you to play around with the content

        5. It quite simply brings in one of the core THINGS in horror, which is Serial Killers in general, which can represent someone or something that can be legitimately terrifying from the real world and bring it into the game.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ruger View Post
          Congrats on hating things I guess. Want a medal for your opinions? I'll start on the paperwork.

          Slasher movies are a classic type of horror, "Some crazy guy kills people". People can be scared of monsters and the like, but at the end of the day (night?) vampires don't exist. Ghosts and werewolves and whatever else you have in your horror movie don't exist either. Fake things can be scary as long as the movie, book, whatever does it well, but once you get a chance to think about it the fear goes away pretty easily. Serial killers are real, so thinking about them rationally doesn't really help much. That is probably what sets it apart from other monsters.



          As for all the slasher tropes, they're mostly hitting all the taboos they can. Taboos against violence, sex, whatever. Easy way to make people feel uncomfortable and afraid I'd guess, though I'm not really an expert on horror.

          So your okay if someone was in Blackface because Lots of white people are afraid of that?

          You shouldn’t be okay with Classist and Ableist shit.
          Some people are really creeped out by Teh Gays and the races mixing .should that by in Horror films?

          They are returning for the second edition because of course they are. Konradlejon not liking something isn't the metric they use to decide what book gets published >_>
          I said why are they returning? Not if

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

            I said why are they returning? Not if
            I'm going to be blunt. slashers are in because not only were they extremely well received, they made complete sense to bring into the vigil both thematically and mechanically. Please, dont make this the same issue as Lessons, where you refuse to take anyones feedback

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

              I said why are they returning? Not if
              And I explained why, not stating "if".

              If you asked "If" I'd just point you to the developer stuff.

              Comment


              • #8
                Gonna have to ask again what you expected to happen here, Konrad. It's not like you don't have a good question, but I get the feeling you're expecting something other than elucidation and I wonder if your expectations for such are realistic or unchallenged.


                Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                • #9
                  Well I guess I expect people to side with me.

                  I’m not good with accepting defeat.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I mean, you're not wrong-though you'll have to explain the classism to me-but again you're going at it in such a way that makes it hard to talk to you, or even about the subject.

                    Anyways, by and large as mentioned, they're here because they are prominent pulp horror icons that have a ready place in the larger Chronicles subject space as well as Vigil's specific horror niche. They strike a good balance between human evils and supernatural spectacle, with a danger level unlike many others in the Chronicles world delivered by such a familiar point of view-even with monsters with such killing potential like werewolves and demons, few unleash that as fully and harshly as a Slasher because their motives are usually on something, anything else, than just killing people, where as a Slasher simply has no reason to pull their punches because Murder is Their Game and Goal. They reflect nicely on Hunters, who's self-justifications in their pursuit of harming people who just happen to not be human quiver and tremble when confronted with the question of "What if what I'm really motivated by is just hurting people?"(*cough*), and the capacity of Slashers to blend in with Hunters makes for one of the more insidious forms of cancer cells there can be, and that potential is exacerbated by how any hunter can realize that the degree to which they just like hurting and killing people exceeds the worth of any thing they can put up in counter to them.

                    RPG's are also a great place to challenge the standards of the Slasher genre and foster creative exploration in not only more thrilling horror stories but thoughtful ones. The Slasher Genre has it's problems, but those ideas and approaches can be not only be defied, subverted, deconstructed, and worked into better forms, but they already are. The first edition Slasher book presents it's dialogue, but a significant amount of it's text subtly weaves counter-arguments and portrayals against it. By continuing to dig into Slashers, we get to personally challenge the standards and reinvent them. It helps that Hunter in particular, though often are overplayed in the fandom's thoughts on this front, are portrayed with hope when it comes to winning against monsters. The Man in the Boar Mask comes to teach those filthy kids why they shouldn't be rutting without God's Good Graces only to get filled with lead by the Texan Punk Orgy, the Charming Glasgow is made as ugly as he feels burn victims are by the one in a wheelchair, and Glass Scratch crawls away in fear as his hunter explains, one schizo to another, why it's such bullshit he's trying to hide behind his disability for his blunt desire to hurt other people, and why she's gonna make sure he stops feeding the bigots ammo.

                    No one's saying there aren't problems, but it's too rich a vein to explore and, honestly, the problems almost beg for challenge and subversion. So of course they're going to be a thing. Why miss a chance to make a better horror genre and a better world when the chance exists?

                    Why put the monsters back under the bed when we can drag them out into the street, shoot them in the head, and win?
                    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 06-30-2019, 12:29 AM.


                    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                    Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
                      Well I guess I expect people to side with me.
                      1) I mean, if you're looking for people to agree with you, you probably shouldn't open with a question that's asking for people to defend the other side. You didn't ask, "Do people agree that the Slasher genre is too problematic for the CofD to draw on?" You asked why Slashers are going to continue to be a thing in 2e, so people answer that.

                      2) It's really hard to side with an argument that seems to be so ill-informed about Slashers in the books as they are. It feels like you're asking, "Why would anyone play Werewolf the Forsaken, when you're stuck as a normal human being the vast majority of the time, but then on full moons you lose control and go on a murder rampage?" You're so stuck on your critique of the slasher movie genre, that you never actually make the case that Slashers as a CofD character type have the same problems.

                      Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                      I mean, you're not wrong-though you'll have to explain the classism to me
                      It is generally more archetypal for slasher movie antagonists to be from a more economically disadvantaged background than their victims, and a number of prominent slasher movies take this further with stereotypes associated with rural/off-the-grid culture.

                      Now, I would personally argue that in most slasher movies this is actually presented as a sympathetic aspect of the antagonist as they're either motivated by their frustration and hatred of the oppression the upper class foists on them, or their socioeconomic status is part of the environment that shaped them into killers; making class struggle an important part of slasher narratives. Of course, most slasher films are not written with the nuance or skill to really do such topics justice.

                      I would argue that the aforementioned Texas Chainsaw Massacre has a strong subtext of the family being driven to cannibalism to survive after the town where they live was abandoned after the main industry left, and they didn't have the resources to move away. Even though the current generation was raised with this as their normal, you see they are hardly unified in their response to this reality. The hitchhiker clearly enjoys his role, but it markedly uncomfortable with processing and butchering their victims even as he picks them out and cooks them once Leatherface is done. Leatherface doesn't actually actively engage in finding people, and is reluctant to even help chase down escaping ones without provocation from his family - to the point of thinking the main characters in the original movie are intruders trying to attack the house rather than food; but doesn't actually have any issues with treating humans as food once one is designated as such by the family and does the butchering without issue. But TCM never really discusses or explores this thoroughly

                      This stands in very stark contrast to the Wrong Turn movies, where backwoods hill country folks inbred to the point of having quasi-superpowers, and hunt people purely because they want to (as they actually live not to far from a perfectly prosperous community)... and ends up classist as hell for it.

                      Candyman is probably a movie to hold up as a ideal balance of the sympathy evoked by this, without losing the horror of the violence and harm the titular ghost does to people.

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                      • #12
                        Ah, I see. Somehow that had slipped by me.

                        Yeah, no, that's also something to be explored more, and certainly can be explored well. I don't know if Jordan Peele's Us could be counted as a slasher film proper, but the dialogue of that movie is excellent in both creating terrifying individuals while showcasing the even more horrific systems that created them and made them what they are.

                        And that's the sort of subversion and critical deconstruction that pays out in doing things with problematic genre tropes and cliches. You don't get that by leaving aside something you don't like.


                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
                          Well I guess I expect people to side with me.

                          I’m not good with accepting defeat.
                          We're not your echo chamber.

                          We're not obligated to agree with your opinions, just because you want us to.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As mentioned before, you've got to think about how you say the things you want to say so they come across clear and stand the best chance of achieving what you've set out to do.

                            We're a forum of adults, not a bunch of kids throwing tantrums.*

                            *Or at the very least, the majority of the general populace tries to be the former and not the latter.


                            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                            Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                              And that's the sort of subversion and critical deconstruction that pays out in doing things with problematic genre tropes and cliches. You don't get that by leaving aside something you don't like.
                              I agree, though slasher films are in a weird place for this, because after Scream there was a lot of this that happened as audiences were already tired of the cliches and clearly wanted more self-aware films... until the nostalgia revival/reboot trend that's dominated the '10s... and those kinda fell flat so it's really hard for something to avoid the deconstruction era's own cliches that inspired people 'returning to form' for a bit.

                              Though Peele seems to be one of the best creators out there for creating a new wave of slasher flicks; Us is kinda hard to classify but it's close enough.

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