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  • #16
    Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

    ahh, I assume you basically worry they will make hunters "good guys"

    If I assumed correctly, I actually agree with that. I do worry they will make hunters mostly in the right instead of the big grey area it was
    Close but not quite.

    I mean, yes, I don't want Hunters to just be good guys, but I want more than a simple negative. Hunter is deliciously, lovingly, fragilely complex- emotionally, mentally, morally, ethically, logically. It's a game where "good guy" and "bad guy" almost dissolve and all you're left with is, well, life. First Edition was very much that game, and while I do trust that Second Edition will be as well-

    Well, again, I don't think I represent the average Hunter fan.


    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
    Female pronouns, please.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
      Close but not quite.

      I mean, yes, I don't want Hunters to just be good guys, but I want more than a simple negative. Hunter is deliciously, lovingly, fragilely complex- emotionally, mentally, morally, ethically, logically. It's a game where "good guy" and "bad guy" almost dissolve and all you're left with is, well, life. First Edition was very much that game, and while I do trust that Second Edition will be as well-

      Well, again, I don't think I represent the average Hunter fan.
      I think you represent a larger minority than you think though. and the part you said about aspirational futures because of what are very much grey, even, no, especially black areas is something I think is thematically unique to Hunter.

      and yeah, I dont want a simple negative morality take either

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
        Hunter is perhaps the game that is the most "penny in the air" in terms of the sort of perspectives that will direct it because of the stark difference between the original game's text and popular conception of it (Hunter 1st is actually a morally and ethically conflicted mess that offer a lot of personal horror and truly disturbing character types done in the pursuit of the "virtuous" Vigil but also some brilliantly aspirational takes on the future only possible because of that darkness, Hunter Fandom hews towards a much...cleaner take of everything that is also, to me, much shallower and less rewarding), and while I feel like what little we've gotten so far has hewed towards continuing what I liked about Hunter in the first place, I can't shake the feeling that since I feel I can safely say I probably don't represent the mainstream Hunter Fandom, I'll end up with a Hunter that will be good, but not the Hunter that helped me start my career of running Chronicles, and considering I had two years of non-stop Hunter as a formative experience as a Chronicles GM, I have a lot of feels about possibly being missed.

        Like, I expect it to be good either way? But I worry about it not still being my Hunter, you know?

        It's a purely selfish thing, but sometimes that's what we have.
        ...so less about the product itself but more the community surrounding it?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

          ...so less about the product itself but more the community surrounding it?
          I mean, always the community surrounding it. THere are few things I regret not being more active in, but Hunter is one of them, because BOY HOWDY do Hunter Fans* have some Interesting Ideas about what their Favorite Game is About.

          But that's getting a little arrogant and dickish. Getting more on point and away from that, it's also the fact that playing to the fanbase is an easy way to build a new direction, and considering that the Hunter fanbase and I have never exactly spoken each other's language, there's always this worry and risk that not being in the majority form of understanding and enjoyment means that as things go on, you're increasingly likely to not have the thing you love be the thing you love, even if it's still good in it's new forms.

          *As I have experienced it.


          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
          Female pronouns, please.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
            I mean, always the community surrounding it. THere are few things I regret not being more active in, but Hunter is one of them, because BOY HOWDY do Hunter Fans* have some Interesting Ideas about what their Favorite Game is About.

            But that's getting a little arrogant and dickish. Getting more on point and away from that, it's also the fact that playing to the fanbase is an easy way to build a new direction, and considering that the Hunter fanbase and I have never exactly spoken each other's language, there's always this worry and risk that not being in the majority form of understanding and enjoyment means that as things go on, you're increasingly likely to not have the thing you love be the thing you love, even if it's still good in it's new forms.

            *As I have experienced it.
            Its a tabletop RPG, so it really is about whatever you want it to be about. It isn't like a "Take a bunch of big guns, kick down doors of unambigously evil monsters, blow them up, track down the next" is a less valid playstlye if everyone in the game just wanted to put some holes in a vampire or something.

            The only good monster is a dead monster anyway :P. (Undead don't count)

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            • #21
              ArcaneArts it kind of reminds me the whole "should the Ashwood Abbey be considered a compact or a cabal" argument that happened here. Indeed, there seems to be "two camps" about how "dark" can an Hunter go, but as long as we have Cheiron in the core, I believe that Hunter would still have a dark side for its protagonists. At least, I hope so too.


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              • #22
                I'm still worried about whether the Hunter template brings anything interesting or not. Based on 1e mechanics and the two previews we've got, I fear that the only use I'd get from it would be as a Compacts & Conspiracies bluebook supplement. Everything else that was interesting about 1e has already been ported and updated to the CofD corebook.

                Edit:
                Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                ArcaneArts it kind of reminds me the whole "should the Ashwood Abbey be considered a compact or a cabal" argument that happened here.
                Maybe it would be in the game's interest to turn "cabal" to an in-character term? As in, Ashwood Abbey would never call themselves a cabal, but a few hunters who've met them would.

                On the same note, I forgot that HtV 2e would have some focus on slashers. Having them updated does interest me, so I'm not as wary as I were when I wrote this post a few minutes ago. I'm also curious about the link between the Hunter template and slashers. It's probably connected to their weird 2-in-1 Integrity system, though.
                Last edited by Tessie; 02-03-2020, 07:07 AM.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                  ArcaneArts it kind of reminds me the whole "should the Ashwood Abbey be considered a compact or a cabal" argument that happened here. Indeed, there seems to be "two camps" about how "dark" can an Hunter go, but as long as we have Cheiron in the core, I believe that Hunter would still have a dark side for its protagonists. At least, I hope so too.
                  Those, the arguments around the code, the shock and horror of how many monsters are involved with the Conspiracies-yeah, those the conversations that I recall and put me on edge.


                  Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                  The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                  Female pronouns, please.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                    Maybe it would be in the game's interest to turn "cabal" to an in-character term? As in, Ashwood Abbey would never call themselves a cabal, but a few hunters who've met them would.
                    IIRC, in that context, the topic was whether or not the Abbey should be classified as a compact, and as such "player option", or a cabal, and as such "unplayable". In fact, the intention was to fold them and the Hunt Club into a single group of antagonists, qas far as I can recall.

                    Unless you talked about what you would have wanted it to be, and then never mind.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                      IIRC, in that context, the topic was whether or not the Abbey should be classified as a compact, and as such "player option", or a cabal, and as such "unplayable". In fact, the intention was to fold them and the Hunt Club into a single group of antagonists, qas far as I can recall.

                      Unless you talked about what you would have wanted it to be, and then never mind.
                      thankfully, that didnt happen (yeah I know I'm only speaking for those that wanted the abbey to stay)

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                      • #26
                        I've also got some caution about whether it might be perfectly good but not "my" Hunter. I expect it to be like...neat, at least? Neat, lootable, something I could play with others fine, but how much work it will take to make it mine is unclear. And Hunter is basically the first ChroD game I played at length and the first I ran at length. Those feelings cut deep.

                        I have warned my Hunter players to expect much squeeing and also gnashing of teeth for several weeks as I devour and digest the previews.

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                        • #27
                          I've never been a huge fan of hunter, except the Lucifuge, but maybe 2e can offer me something interesting to ignite my interest.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

                            thankfully, that didnt happen (yeah I know I'm only speaking for those that wanted the abbey to stay)
                            What did happen? Last I heard, they were still antagonists, or at least the only one I could recall was helping an apocalypse cult to join the winning side in the final battle.


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Leliel View Post

                              What did happen? Last I heard, they were still antagonists, or at least the only one I could recall was helping an apocalypse cult to join the winning side in the final battle.
                              what? the Ashwood Abbey is sadly no longer a core compact. however, it should (along with all the other groups IF this portion is included) be getting a short write-up in the corebook. it's as much an "antagonist" faction as any other hunter group, which is to say however much you want it to be (as it should be)

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

                                what? the Ashwood Abbey is sadly no longer a core compact. however, it should (along with all the other groups IF this portion is included) be getting a short write-up in the corebook. it's as much an "antagonist" faction as any other hunter group, which is to say however much you want it to be (as it should be)
                                I think Leliel refers to their presentation in the Contagion Chronicles, where they were presented as example members of Naglfar's Army. It should be mentioned, however, that the Ordo Dracul and some other "player option splats" were also presented among the False, so it does not outright means that they are considered unplayable in 2e.


                                My Homebrew Signature

                                "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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