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  • Originally posted by Morty View Post
    Vampires are arguably the thing Wrathful Sword is the most useful against, because it lets you deal lethal damage to an enemy that otherwise downgrades all damage from mundane weapons to bashing.
    I suppose that's true. but damn was aggravated damage so satisfying

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    • Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
      I suppose that's true. but damn was aggravated damage so satisfying
      2e in general has made aggravated damage a fair bit rarer as well as making weapon damage higher at base.

      1e's version of Wrathful Sword had a set total amount of aggravated damage it could inflict, cost two Willpower to use, lasted a scene or less, destroyed the weapon after its effects ended, and rolled Strength + Benediction alone as an instant with the +5 dice if you used it on Michaelmas.

      The previewed version of Wrathful Sword gives the weapon a consistently lethal damage modifier against a set of entities that include many with "this thing doesn't have organs, so weapons deal bashing damage against it" as an innate quality, costs one Willpower to use, lasts for a day, makes no mention of destroying the blessed weapon, and rolls Intelligence + Occult + Benediction as an extended action.

      Bumping the latter up to full aggravated damage changes the power dramatically more than giving it a utility bump; there's "satisfying" and then there's "giving a level of access to aggravated damage that amounts to casual vaporization to people who are still supposed to be relative underdogs among the supernatural."


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
        2e in general has made aggravated damage a fair bit rarer as well as making weapon damage higher at base.

        1e's version of Wrathful Sword had a set total amount of aggravated damage it could inflict, cost two Willpower to use, lasted a scene or less, destroyed the weapon after its effects ended, and rolled Strength + Benediction alone as an instant with the +5 dice if you used it on Michaelmas.

        The previewed version of Wrathful Sword gives the weapon a consistently lethal damage modifier against a set of entities that include many with "this thing doesn't have organs, so weapons deal bashing damage against it" as an innate quality, costs one Willpower to use, lasts for a day, makes no mention of destroying the blessed weapon, and rolls Intelligence + Occult + Benediction as an extended action.

        Bumping the latter up to full aggravated damage changes the power dramatically more than giving it a utility bump; there's "satisfying" and then there's "giving a level of access to aggravated damage that amounts to casual vaporization to people who are still supposed to be relative underdogs among the supernatural."
        yeah, that makes sense. the utility is pretty good. huh, now that I think about it, while it does cost a dot, the boon of Lazarus has gotten a buff if you ask me. no more persistent condition (sure 5 minutes or less, but still)

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        • Originally posted by Morty View Post
          Vampires are arguably the thing Wrathful Sword is the most useful against, because it lets you deal lethal damage to an enemy that otherwise downgrades all damage from mundane weapons to bashing.

          Hate to break it to but that isn't what it says at all.

          All the ability says is that it REPLACES your Weapons normal Damage with your Benedicition Ranking...nothing more, it doesn't grant you the ability to ignore defensive abilities or acts like Bane to the creatures your attack. So a vampire will still reduce ALL Damage to Bashing.

          That's why the ability is useless as written.

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          • Originally posted by Magus Black View Post


            Hate to break it to but that isn't what it says at all.

            All the ability says is that it REPLACES your Weapons normal Damage with your Benedicition Ranking...nothing more, it doesn't grant you the ability to ignore defensive abilities or acts like Bane to the creatures your attack. So a vampire will still reduce ALL Damage to Bashing.

            That's why the ability is useless as written.
            it does specify that the lethal damage applies to monsters. at the very least, that implies its lethal to vampires

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            • Originally posted by Magus Black View Post
              Hate to break it to but that isn't what it says at all.

              All the ability says is that it REPLACES your Weapons normal Damage with your Benedicition Ranking...nothing more, it doesn't grant you the ability to ignore defensive abilities or acts like Bane to the creatures your attack. So a vampire will still reduce ALL Damage to Bashing.

              That's why the ability is useless as written.

              Vampire: the Requiem 2E, pg. 90, bold emphasis mine. "Kindred take only bashing damage from many sources that would normally cause lethal damage to humans. This includes most non-supernatural weapons."

              The 2E version of Wrathful Sword states that the weapon is imbued with divine power. I would like to argue that the weapon would be considered supernatural and would bypass a Vampire's ability to reduce lethal damage to bashing.

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              • Originally posted by Magus Black View Post
                Hate to break it to but that isn't what it says at all.

                All the ability says is that it REPLACES your Weapons normal Damage with your Benedicition Ranking...nothing more, it doesn't grant you the ability to ignore defensive abilities or acts like Bane to the creatures your attack. So a vampire will still reduce ALL Damage to Bashing.

                That's why the ability is useless as written.
                No need to be sorry about it, because you're not actually "breaking" anything to me. Here's what the Benediction's text says:

                "When wielded against a monster, the weapon has a lethal damage rating equal to the hunter’s Benediction rating."

                This means it specifically deals lethal damage to monsters. It would be rather redundant against mortals, who take lethal damage from all weapons anyhow.

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                • Originally posted by Reaper Verse View Post


                  Vampire: the Requiem 2E, pg. 90, bold emphasis mine. "Kindred take only bashing damage from many sources that would normally cause lethal damage to humans. This includes most non-supernatural weapons."

                  The 2E version of Wrathful Sword states that the weapon is imbued with divine power. I would like to argue that the weapon would be considered supernatural and would bypass a Vampire's ability to reduce lethal damage to bashing.



                  Perhaps that's my problem here 'argue' would imply that there is a bit ambiguousness to that the old didn't have...perhaps they could put a bit in to clarify that. Most 'supernatural weapons' are of the more...permanent variety after all.


                  Originally posted by Morty View Post

                  No need to be sorry about it, because you're not actually "breaking" anything to me. Here's what the Benediction's text says:

                  "When wielded against a monster, the weapon has a lethal damage rating equal to the hunter’s Benediction rating."

                  This means it specifically deals lethal damage to monsters. It would be rather redundant against mortals, who take lethal damage from all weapons anyhow.
                  On the other hand the (as written) benefit to this is taking a small (Damage 0) weapon and making it a Damage 5 Pen-knife of Doom, which is how I see the point of the ability as its currently written.


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                  • Originally posted by Magus Black View Post


                    Perhaps that's my problem here 'argue' would imply that there is a bit ambiguousness to that the old didn't have...perhaps they could put a bit in to clarify that. Most 'supernatural weapons' are of the more...permanent variety after all.




                    On the other hand the (as written) benefit to this is taking a small (Damage 0) weapon and making it a Damage 5 Pen-knife of Doom, which is how I see the point of the ability as its currently written.

                    as it's currently written, is to allow truly meaningful damage to a monster who normally would just downgrade the damage. the fact it makes a weapon inherently Lethal to monsters is a bonus (and it make it impossible for them to take the blessed wooden bat from you and deal lethal damage with it).

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Magus Black View Post
                      Perhaps that's my problem here 'argue' would imply that there is a bit ambiguousness to that the old didn't have...perhaps they could put a bit in to clarify that. Most 'supernatural weapons' are of the more...permanent variety after all.

                      The 1E iteration of Wrathful Sword explicitly did aggravated damage, which in general nothing resists. That's probably why there's ambiguity now that wasn't there. Additionally, the Endowments in 2E are explicitly stated to be supernatural ("Hunters are not supernatural, but the Endowments they use are." Under 'Using Endowments', Manuscript Preview #1 and Ascending Ones), so the 2E iteration of Wrathful Sword should affect Vampires and creatures that resist lethal damage from mundane weapons. I do agree that stating in plain words that Wrathful Sword either does or does not bypass resistances would clarify the issue.


                      In other news, we have $71 dollars to go before we clear the $70k marker. The writing has yet to be set in stone, I presume, but I'm excited to hear about the 8 new Compacts we will be getting. I enjoy SWORN and while I'm not 100% sold on the Council of Bones, I acknowledge that they fulfill a missing niche in Hunter, which helps flesh it out as a fuller universe. I'm excited to know more about Nine Stars know that we know that the Compact was directly inspired by crime dramas and I'm in high hopes for the rest of the 2E Hunter manuscript.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Reaper Verse View Post


                        The 1E iteration of Wrathful Sword explicitly did aggravated damage, which in general nothing resists. That's probably why there's ambiguity now that wasn't there. Additionally, the Endowments in 2E are explicitly stated to be supernatural ("Hunters are not supernatural, but the Endowments they use are." Under 'Using Endowments', Manuscript Preview #1 and Ascending Ones), so the 2E iteration of Wrathful Sword should affect Vampires and creatures that resist lethal damage from mundane weapons. I do agree that stating in plain words that Wrathful Sword either does or does not bypass resistances would clarify the issue.


                        In other news, we have $71 dollars to go before we clear the $70k marker. The writing has yet to be set in stone, I presume, but I'm excited to hear about the 8 new Compacts we will be getting. I enjoy SWORN and while I'm not 100% sold on the Council of Bones, I acknowledge that they fulfill a missing niche in Hunter, which helps flesh it out as a fuller universe. I'm excited to know more about Nine Stars know that we know that the Compact was directly inspired by crime dramas and I'm in high hopes for the rest of the 2E Hunter manuscript.
                        I think its expanded write ups on the 7 we have, PLUS one new compact and conspiracy

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                        • Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

                          I think its expanded write ups on the 7 we have, PLUS one new compact and conspiracy


                          Huh. The Update #10 and the interpretations of others seems to make it out as it being more, specifically the quick mention of "New Compacts, baby! So excited!" I might be overhyping myself. But hey, more information and at least one more organization. :V

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                          • Originally posted by Reaper Verse View Post



                            Huh. The Update #10 and the interpretations of others seems to make it out as it being more, specifically the quick mention of "New Compacts, baby! So excited!" I might be overhyping myself. But hey, more information and at least one more organization. :V
                            welp, reading it again, I have no idea. I'm going to sleep on it

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                            • 70,000$! New Compacts, baby! :P

                              And now to get the Third Tier expansion and the secret stretch goal and I could sleep well at night


                              My Homebrew Signature

                              "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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                              • Union and TF: V are out! Being the chump I am I have skipped the compact straight to the Conspiracy.

                                I have not read much/ Any TF:V stuff from 1e but I like the feel of the write up here. The twisted self-eating conspiracy theories is a fun angle, the suspicions as to why they don’t work outside the US and the scope of Antagonists is nice compared to some of the more focused conspiracy’s.

                                Their write up I like, but I have some issues with Advanced Armoury. To start positive, the general idea of monster hunting tech that, in contrast to the other conspiracies, is completely mundane is badass. I also really like the RFID feature as a reason the weapons cannot go walkabout easily and another layer of Military Industrial complex control. Plus, most of the items I think do a really cool effect. As endowments go, flavour is on point.

                                My issue is the mechanics feel really, really, dissonant from the flavour. Mainly in 2 areas:

                                Loadout: This mechanic feels like it has an Identity crisis? Some items like the Grenades or Serum give the user a direct number of uses (6 and 1 respectively) but still have the caveat that they cease working after X sessions – a purely out of game measure. What if I am running some really slow paced sessions running at near real time, and then RAW my goggles fail between sessions, or my grenades just “stop” even though only a day has passed in game, but in another session 2 months could pass and the goggles are working fine. I feel like loadout should be tied to an in game measure either uses (Grenades have 6 per loadout, ammo for Mjolnir) or an in game measure before the item needs to be checked in (3 weeks or the goggles are remotely deactivated for instance). I know this is super easy to homebrew, but I want that feedback in now if possible

                                Further thought: having them tied to in game measures can be used for extra tension, either as your hunt goes poorly and your up against the clock, or the vampire you were trailing has skipped the border to Canada and you need to negotiate with your handler an extension to the loadout time to hunt it down.

                                Using Advanced Armoury in a roll: This is mostly on the Equaliser Grenade and the Odin Reticule, It feels weird that AA is used in die rolls for this equipment when much was made of these weapons being Mundane in the write up for AA. Even if they are supposed to be supernatural and scale with AA – AA is just level of trust with TF:V, not an inherent trait. I suppose the Odin Reticule could be covered by “training” in how the AA rating helps, but the roll for the grenade is used as a effect of the grenade which feels – disconnected.

                                I know that’s a little negative – but this is probably my favourite write up so far except maybe Lucifuge! Just the above two bugged me as they are out of game mechanics effecting in game which I feel should be avoided whenever possible.
                                Last edited by LordofIron; 02-19-2020, 08:25 AM. Reason: Idea on loadout


                                Find my Homebrew so far here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
                                So far its Demon Merits, Vampire 1e to 2e ports and a Knowledge collection mechanic for the Ordo Dracul!

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