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  • #91
    So time for Rites du Cheval update-

    Concept: Les Mysteres teaches their members how to allow the spirits ride their flesh while maintaining control, appeasing the gods and gaining their blessings through rituals and discipline.

    So, the Rites have two main feature- they are ritualistic, and they work by allowing the spirits to ride one's flesh. In 1e, they also have some tie to the Status of the conspiracy, which is meant to represent how fractured their structure is. With them breaking apart and then forced to rebuild, it makes sense to keep the Status requirement in some form, but the main question is how. Some way to regulate the use of the Rites through the hunter's self control also seems appropriate. As such, we have four main features to consider- ritualism, possession, Status and self control.

    The ritualistic character of the Rites makes me think that perhaps a structure similar to that of Benedictions is the most appropriate one. My personal instinct is that in order to tie Status into the Endowment, we could perhaps use Status as the dice pool the hunter must roll when activating their Endowments. That brings the question for "why would the popularity of the hunter in the conspiracy influence their ability to control the spirits" kind of question. The answer would be that spirits recognize and respect hierarchies- and by recognizing the hunters of the Mysteres as emissaries, they grant it power. Status in the Mysteres would be treated as an Honorary Rank among spirits, and as such the more respected is the hunter in the conspiracy, the more the spirits will be willing to work with the hunter instead of trying to possess them. That may also be one of the reasons that the conspiracy has broken down- as the conspiracy spread too thin, the meaning of the Status - and as such, the Rank is bestowed with it - lost its meaning, and the spirits moved in to take opportunity of the now defenseless hunters. Making the spirits to respect the Emissaries again was probably one of the first steps in rebuilding the conspiracy.

    Now that we have the basis of the system, let's decide how it works- as a ritualistic Endowment, the basic roll would be Resolve + Expression + Status (Les Mysteres). Losing all Status in the conspiracy would make the hunter unable to use their Endowments, and any such attempt would simply turn them into the spirits plaything. The Endowments also require some appeasement, which would take the form of the cost. As for modifiers, I tends think that using appeasements with higher cost than necessary (that is, requiring Resources to gain them) should give a +1 modifier for each excess point of Resources. All in all, I think that this is how I would structure the Rites du Cheval's basic roll-

    Cost: Appeasement (see each ritual for specifics)

    Dice Pool: Resolve + Expression + Status (Les Mysteres)

    Action: Extended (15 minutes, blah blah details about how Successes needs to be accumulated blah blah)

    Duration: One hour per Status

    Roll Results:

    Success: the ritual draws the spirits and activates as required. You gain the Ridden Condition at the end of the ritual.

    Exceptional Success: your actions made the spirits dance to your song and the Shadow celebrate with joy. Either reduce the number of needed Successes by your Status or gain the Inspired Condition in the end of the ritual.

    Failure: the spirits don't listen to your prayers. You either abandon the ritual or continue and suffer from the Stumbled Condition

    Dramatic Failure: your appeasements and rituals have failed you, and the spirits lurk into your mind. The ritual fails, and you suffer from the Possessed Condition.

    Condition: Ridden
    The spirits share the burden of the mortal coil with the hunter, taking allowing them to ignore the pain and fear of battle. The hunter can ignore wound penalties, and any attempt to force upon them any fear related Condition (such as Shaken, Frightened or Spooked) suffers from a -2 modifier.
    Possible Sources: Success in the Rites du Cheval ritual
    Beat: N/A
    Resolution: the Condition is resolved at the end of the ritual's duration without granting a Beat.

    Condition: Possessed
    The spirits of the otherworld have crept into your mind, and their cacophony of alien voices cloud your judgement until you fulfill their will. The hunter suffers -2 modifier for all Perception rolls for any action which does not satisfy the spirit's desires.
    Possible Sources: Dramatic Failure in a Rites du Cheval roll.
    Beat: every time the desires of the spirit hinder you or your cell's efforts, gain a Beat
    Resolution: when the spirit crawls into your mind, it comes with specific demands. Once the spirit gains what it desired, you can shed this Condition and gain a Beat. Exorcism may also resolve this Condition, yet then no Beat is gained, and the hunter would suffer a -1 modifier for their next attempt to activate the Rites du Cheval.

    So now that we have those basic mechanics, let's try to break it apart into numbers.

    Appeasements are consumable ingredients, which gives a -2 to the Endowment. As the Rites should be quicker and more active than Benedictions, I have decided it should take minutes to activate them instead of hours, and as such we have another -4. Each action beyond the first one (as gaining Successes is the goal) it would give -1 for every Success above 5. The Dramatic Failure enforce a backlash equivalent of -2, but as it is only the Dramatic Failure I would treat it as -1. The Ridden Condition balances it with +1, and I think that the passive benefit of an Honorary Rank is the equivalent of a +4. The Rites also last for a number of hours, which is a +2. I am not counting the effect of the Inspired Condition, as it is only when you gain an Exceptional Success, so +0. Let's sum it up-

    -2 - 4 - 1 +1 + 4 + 2 + 0 = 0.

    Ah, so the dice roll itself is outright balanced. Nice. That also mean that every ritual is going to be required to be balanced by its own, mostly by the number of Successes needed. We could say that every hunter knows immediately the Calling Down the Thunder Endowment, which is the basic dice pool which serves only to gain the Ridden Condition. That Rite is the most basic ritual, requiring any minor sacrifice for the spirits in exchange for gaining the basic benefit, and which serves as a gate for the rest of the Endowments of the conspiracy.

    Now, let's update two sample Endowments and see what we gain from it.

    Skin of the Loa
    The hunter learn to wear the spirits on their own flesh, allowing their ephemera to shield the hunter from danger. The spirit, in return, demands the blood of those the hunter's enemies.
    Successes: 5
    Appeasement: a sheet of paper drenched in wine
    Effect: the hunter's Armor increase by 2. However, while the Endowment is active, the hunter gains the Obsession Condition towards their enemies as long as the Endowment is active.

    So, as the Endowment was meant to be simple and basic in 1e, I didn't wanted to increase the number of Success above 5. Also, the table for Endowment effects does not seem to detail the modifier for extra Armor, so I have just took the value as a modifier. The Condition balances it as a backlash with -2.

    Hands of Raphael
    Channeling spirits of healing and medicine, the hunter is gifted with the legendary lay of hands in order to supports their cellmates in the pursuit of the Vigil.
    Successes: 7
    Appeasement: Grounded silver powder.
    Effect: for each Success the hunter gains in the Endowment, the hunter gains an "healing token". The hunter can expand one such token in order to heal a level of bashing damage, two for lethal and four for aggravated. The hunter can also remove the Sick or Poisoned Tilts in exchange for two such tokens. However, while carrying the mantle of the healer, the hunter pays a price with their own body, gaining the Sick Tilt while the Endowment is active.

    Now, it is very hard to estimate the amount of healing gained from the Endowment. As such, we can at least heal 7 health levels, so we start at 7. Grounded silver requires at least resources of 3 I estimate, which would enforce extra -2 cost. That leaves us at 5. The increased target number brings another -2, bringing us to +3. The Sick tilt balances it to 0.

    So yeah, as you can see, while the Endowment design rules do help to balance out the Endowments, yet when you try to get somewhat creative with it quantifying the actual effects and costs becomes a bit difficult. At least they allow you make the Endowments somewhat balanced, and it would take some time to get adjusted to the rules. Still, I think they work, even if perhaps the Rites du Cheval, not to mention the Hands of Raphael, were not the wisest choice for a first time conversion experiment :P


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    • #92
      Originally posted by LostLight View Post

      I SAID THAT THE EATER OF NAMES IS THE BASTARD! I SAID IT I SAID IT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
      Heheheheheh.


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      • #93
        Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
        Ahh, the Keepers of the Source are very underappreciated compact. Is it ok if I ask some questions about how you see their perspective about the sites they protect, and some specifics regarding the sub factions?
        I see their philosophies more or less as they have been in 1e- other than the Dynasts. The Dynasts would have some greater emphasis on not only moderating between the two sides, but also to make sure that the compact would survive, grow, and leave legacy after it. Heck, maybe some even dream about it growing into a conspiracy. The Dynasts want the compact to have a lasting existence, instead of "just" a temporary protest movement. They want to save Mother Earth, and for that they must have a better understanding of ley lines and how to work with them, as well as an infrastructure for their work.

        As for the sites themselves, they would probably be a form of a mysterious place- even though none of the presented forms fit what they probably seek to protect. Sources would be a new form of a mysterious place, one which could power the Endowments of hunters.. or the Dread Powers of monsters. Tainted places would probably be seen as Sources which were corrupted by monsters, while sentient places are where Mother Earth's rage incarnates into form- and those places must be pacified, either through ritual or, in the case of Redgrove's followers, the death of those who abuse Her. My personal view is that the Keepers have some truth in their claims- places like Loci and Hallows serve as sacred shrines of Mother Earth's magic, and by harvesting that magic the monsters inhibit the natural flow, just like how humans shape their surroundings and use the natural resources for technological purposes. Coal by its own serves no special purpose in nature, but burning it harms the ecosystem. There is "magical pollution" in the world, and draining Sources from magic does influence the natural flow, but murdering witches for harnessing Sources would be like murdering a driver for burning oil in their car. So there is some justice for their claims, but things need to be taken into proportion :P

        Also, while I think your Les mysteres write-up is a good way to show them as a "re-building" conspiracy, I admittedly prefer them back as as more disparate with the unique factions.
        I only work with what I have- I could have just used their 1e state as is, but I prefer my work to be consistent with 2e. Also, those many cults and factions are still around in this writeup- I have simply decided to focus around that faction which still calls itself Les Mysteres, and how they work to rebuild from the ruins. Other factions around the world may have similar goals and different methods, or perhaps instead prefer to develop their own local brand of shamanism over the syncretic faith of the Mysteres.


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        • #94
          Oh, I am also going to add some closing thoughts about Hunter 2e in general, probably tomorrow after the end of the Kickstarter. I need some time to digest everything, after all.


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          • #95
            Originally posted by LostLight View Post
            I see their philosophies more or less as they have been in 1e- other than the Dynasts. The Dynasts would have some greater emphasis on not only moderating between the two sides, but also to make sure that the compact would survive, grow, and leave legacy after it. Heck, maybe some even dream about it growing into a conspiracy. The Dynasts want the compact to have a lasting existence, instead of "just" a temporary protest movement. They want to save Mother Earth, and for that they must have a better understanding of ley lines and how to work with them, as well as an infrastructure for their work.

            As for the sites themselves, they would probably be a form of a mysterious place- even though none of the presented forms fit what they probably seek to protect. Sources would be a new form of a mysterious place, one which could power the Endowments of hunters.. or the Dread Powers of monsters. Tainted places would probably be seen as Sources which were corrupted by monsters, while sentient places are where Mother Earth's rage incarnates into form- and those places must be pacified, either through ritual or, in the case of Redgrove's followers, the death of those who abuse Her. My personal view is that the Keepers have some truth in their claims- places like Loci and Hallows serve as sacred shrines of Mother Earth's magic, and by harvesting that magic the monsters inhibit the natural flow, just like how humans shape their surroundings and use the natural resources for technological purposes. Coal by its own serves no special purpose in nature, but burning it harms the ecosystem. There is "magical pollution" in the world, and draining Sources from magic does influence the natural flow, but murdering witches for harnessing Sources would be like murdering a driver for burning oil in their car. So there is some justice for their claims, but things need to be taken into proportion :P


            I only work with what I have- I could have just used their 1e state as is, but I prefer my work to be consistent with 2e. Also, those many cults and factions are still around in this writeup- I have simply decided to focus around that faction which still calls itself Les Mysteres, and how they work to rebuild from the ruins. Other factions around the world may have similar goals and different methods, or perhaps instead prefer to develop their own local brand of shamanism over the syncretic faith of the Mysteres.
            Wow, you answered all my questions about the compact overall and the one specifically for the Dynasts, impressive. Just 3 questions is all I have

            1. Considering how extreme the Hand of the Mother is, do you give them any redeeming qualities (or simply some more in depth stuff) so they arent simply knight templars (sorry if you dont get what I mean, that's from tv tropes)

            2. I see the Children of Gaia are still extreme pacifists. Much like my previous question, I kinda struggle to see how you can play as a member of that Philosophy, as the monsters often fought dont give a shit about pacifists asking them to stop. So basically, what do they accomplish that gives their efforts credibility instead of slaughtered or completely ignored?

            3. Originally a Dynasts question, but you answered perfectly (I can even see what would be potential flaws of the group). My new question concerns Tainted places. Do you think Keepers would have the same approach to them as your compact, the Domus, or have a different method to purifying it (likely concerning monsters to be killed/negotiated with)

            Concerning the Les Mysteres, by the way, I am so sorry. I did not mean that as a criticism. I do see it as a very clean transition to a re-building phase and did notice that the different beliefs were there, just less emphasized. I guess what I meant to say was, much like the Cainites, i love how a big focus of them was how disparate they were.

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            • #96
              So as we reach the end of the Kickstarter, here are my closing thoughts about Hunter 2e-

              - Overall, I really enjoyed the book. It manages to keep the feeling of how the Vigil is powered by desperate hope, mortals taking a stance against the darkness, the place of hunters as underdogs and the fear of the unknown.

              - I really did enjoyed the history section, even though some of the parts about how former splats were fallen/absorbed by others is controversial. The dynamism of the setting is an interesting choice, and I get that the team wanted to give hunter some more modern history by having former groups change and fall. The main issue is Merrick, for the level of how it would make sense depends strongly about whether the writeup refers to the conspiracy who made the dreamwalking children or the children themselves.

              - I generally enjoyed the writeups for all compacts and conspiracies, and I did liked how some tweaks and plot hooks were added to them. I am perfectly fine with VASCU going private, for example. Still, the constant feeling of dynamism in the splat writeups is a bit strange and unconventional, and I didn't expected them to be so similar to how things were in 1e, format wise. I must admit that SWORN is pretty bland IMO, and while their whole angle about cryptids and the difference between "monsters which are part of the ecosystem" vs "invasive species" is really cool, a lot of their writeup makes them feel "like a Union for Native Americans". I, of course, have no issue with having a Native American group, but I would have preferred it to have a greater emphasis on what makes them different (that is, cryptids, ecosystem and anti colonialism) than how they are "just" a compact focused around protecting Native Americans. The Council of Bones is also no in my top favorite groups, but the Storytelling Chapter and the Slasher Chronicles did worked to give them more character, admitting their arrogance and flaws instead of "a just and virtuous conspiracy". Their lack of history also makes me hard to enjoy them, writeup wise. Again, they have a lot of cool things about them, but the reasons detailed in this thread they are just not "click" for me as other organizations- but I like them more after the ST chapter than when I first read their writeup. Nine Stars were really cool, and I really enjoyed reading them. I must say that I am surprised to see how much attention did the AKD got through the book (including the example settings), which makes me wonder about why they are not in the core, considering that the core speaks about them so much (yeah, they have a very basic writeup in the ST chapter, but you get what I mean). Also, please give me the writeups for the Five Roses Empire and the Los Angelitos!

              - As for the core rules, I am a big fan of giving hunters Touchstones. The Code being dependent on how the hunter understands the situation really helps with the issues about "people vs monsters", even though sometimes the writeup almost feels apologetic for the fans for the decision- yes, there was a controversy about it, and I appreciate that the book recognize it, but I think that such explanations should be presented in the community instead of in the book itself, but it is still for the team to acknowledge the issue. I did enjoyed the description of the Code and how it takes form, an oath the hunter takes upon themselves after being pushed to the edge. Tactics were also really great, and felt very organic in their presentation. While Tactics, Touchstones, the Code and Risking Willpower are all great, I kind of wish that the book would have presented some other "unique" features of being an hunter, be it thinks like Skill Tricks from Mirrors or things like that. Having the Supernatural Tolerance merit from Hurt Locker and allowing Third Tier Hunters to buy it could have also been a nice touch. You know, some extra things which would make hunters feel "special", even though I understand that the team wanted to focus around how the greatest source of power that hunters have is their teamwork. Costume gear could have been a part of the rules instead of an appendix, IMO.

              - Now, while I did enjoyed the Dread Powers and the roster of monsters which was presented, there are a few things which kind of bother me. Among the Dread Powers, I really wish that Infernal would not have been tied to fire manipulation as it is, for that Dread Power also marks a monster as been a target for Castigation. I would have been satisfied with it simply granting a True Name and some basic demonic quality for those who hold it- after all, Hell has ice as well as fire. The other thing is about the monsters themselves- I am a big fan of how hunter Incorporated monsters from urban legends to the setting, but sometimes it felt like those monsters are too "just like in legend", and I wanted to seem some sort of twist which ties them to the greater CofD setting- simply mentioning how "brain eating ants" look like "they are made of brass", for example, could have been an awesome easter egg, IMO, and would have added a twist beyond the regular legend. Now, another complaint is that while the book and the lexicon talks about all the varieties of monsters, there isn't a specialized section for each "archetype" or "breed" of monsters like there was in 1e. Vampires, skinwalkers, witches, reanimated, fairies, revenants, mummies, demons, mythics, mutants and/or cryptids being described in the monster section, as well as suggesting which Dread Powers are appropriate for them, could have been really cool IMO. I understand that the book wanted to move from "hunters hunt the protagonists of other gamelines", but those archetypes could cover a wide range of monstrosities beyond the exact protagonists- and besides, as those protagonists are the most organized and populous monsters, the chances are the hunters do hunt them. Again, I love how Hunter tied itself to urban legends, but I would have liked at least some discussion about how the book suggest building those monsters in Hunter. Beyond that, what that I felt was missing the most was WHY there are more monsters than the usual. Either what hunters think about it, or what the monsters think about it. That section was very "from the Hunter's POV", and I felt that some discussion about the monsters' perspective was missing, and I would have liked to see it.

              - Let's put it this way- Mysterious Places are just awesome. They are a really good addition to Hunter, and they add a lot of character to the setting. I only wish that there was some more extensive details about local compacts and conspiracies around the presented Mysterious Places, as well as the local monsters in them, in order to turn them into full settings. I did felt like how none antagonistic mysterious places were missing, like Loci and Hallows, which could have made things somewhat more complicated for hunters. Bygones are also really cool, and the fact that every hunter may access them is a great addition for Hunter (as some people pointed out that having all relics limited to the AKD didn't really made sense)- but I do wish that the AKD would have got a more detailed writeup in order to give a deeper research for how their Endowments differ from the Bygones of other groups. Also, I would reaaaaaaaally want an example Bygone list.

              - Now, the Slasher Chronicles chapter is something I am a bit ambivalent about. It has a lot of good things, I do like how Undertaking were presented, and the example settings are outright awesome. On the other hand, just like I didn't really felt the "monsters' side of the story" in the previous chapter, I also don't really feel the slasher's one. The example settings help with it, but it is still not enough, IMO. I mean, when I read the original Slasher sourcebook, I had nightmares for a week, mostly because it went deep into the psych of the slashers. In here, their presentation sometimes makes them feel like puppets, more like blank pages and without much of personality other than they murder. Again, the example settings help with it, but compared to the strix and the idigam and the reapers and alchemists and so forth, the horror of the slashers feel more superficial. Again, probably because the book focus mostly on the Hunter side and not on the Slasher side. I also didn't really liked how the rise in slashers means that monsters become less active- as it outright contradicts the rest of the book, turning it into more of a shard instead of an optional addition to the setting. It seems like just how the book divides hunter into 3 different playstyles by Tier, it also makes the Slasher Chronicles into an alternative universe instead of the canon one, which I would prefer it to be otherwise. While this section does indeed refer to the possible origins of the "slasher epidemic", none of them really caught my attention, saying the truth. I would have liked if the example settings were to leave some plot hooks about whatever is the source which makes slashers, but unfortunately it is not really the case (other than Hong Kong- Chris Allen, you are a mad genius). I also kind of wonder how to use the "slasher epidemic" in places where there isn't much of a "slasher culture" nor a lot of historic serial killers (like where I live, thankfully, and let's hope it stays this way). Also, the lack of cabals as a thing was really disappointing. It could have added an whole new layer to the slasher chronicles, serving as a dark mirror for compacts and present some of the "slasher's side in the story".

              - now, the Storyteller's chapter was indeed really cool, and gave a LOT of character to the game. I only wish that cults would have got a bigger writeup, but I get why they are in this chapter and not in the antagonists one. I still needs to adjust to the new Endowment creation rules, but they do serve, at the very least, as pretty good guidelines. Overall, it was a really good chapter to read.

              So to sum it up- while it may look like I complain about Hunter, it is far from the case- sure, there is a lot of focus about what I didn't liked in this post, but it is because saying "everything here is AWESOME" could be too boring. I enjoyed a lot of what the book had to offer, and it was full of cool plot hooks and ideas for the game. The biggest things which bothered me could be summed up as the lack of having the "monsters' side of the story", the dissonance between the "core" setting and the "slashers chronicles" setting, the lack of focus around "monstrous archetypes", the lack of a section about cabals, and the lack of example Bygones. Some more personal complaints would be the general "lack of twists" in the presentation of the example monsters and that the Mysterious Places were not as developed as the example settings in the Slasher Chronicles. Everything else is very minor, and entirely depends on your personal taste.

              And that's it! Hope you had fun reading my thought on the Kickstarter, and let's wait to see what Tending the Flames has in store for us! (And maybe we can still get the last stretch goal. Maybe).
              Last edited by LostLight; 03-05-2020, 08:58 AM.


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              • #97
                Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                I still feel that the Union are, like the worst nightmare that monsters have. The last thing you want as a monster is to discover that the whole neighborhood is against you, and that they will come at you with everything they have.
                The Union is the embodiment of how when things get really bad, humans tend to cooperate and have each other's backs. Damn straight that's a monster's worst nightmare.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Alchemical View Post
                  The Union is the embodiment of how when things get really bad, humans tend to cooperate and have each other's backs. Damn straight that's a monster's worst nightmare.
                  I would say all the organizations can be a monsters worst nightmare

                  The ashwood abbey is what happens when the elite realize they are the elite, and decide that monsters arent scary, but incredibly fun creatures to play "games" with. Not to mention getting cozy with other monsters that you thought were YOUR allies.

                  The Long Night is when humanity decides monsters must be fought and that hope is never lost as long as they CAN fight and worse, inspire others to join the Vigil and bring hope

                  Network Zero is when...well, it's easy to see how that players out

                  Really, I can see every groups being a worst nightmare to monsters. I think it's actually a good way to see what makes a monster scared of them.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                    So as we reach the end of the Kickstarter, here are my closing thoughts about Hunter 2e- < Awesome sum-up >
                    mlvalentine , if I may, I really agree with everything LostLight has written. I would only add a minor nitpick - Mythic, as term is mentioned in Lexicon, but not showing in the previews text, really. If I may advised how to use it more, it could come up in SWORN write-up as 'Mythics are creatures of our forefathers', or something like that. Also, mentioning in main write-up of SWORN that in present it's global compact, connecting various ethnical groups around the world, beside it's only Native Americans roots, made it feel much more 'global' and 'corebook worth', marking it much more open to interpretations by STs.


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                    • Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

                      Wow, you answered all my questions about the compact overall and the one specifically for the Dynasts, impressive. Just 3 questions is all I have

                      1. Considering how extreme the Hand of the Mother is, do you give them any redeeming qualities (or simply some more in depth stuff) so they arent simply knight templars (sorry if you dont get what I mean, that's from tv tropes)
                      Well, I think that the most redeeming quality of the Hand is that they are, in essence, hunters- the Children of Gaia may be "nicer", but the Vigil is not about being nice. It is about taking a stand against the darkness and fighting the enemy. The Hand knows that monsters abuse Mother Earth, and as such it is up to them to stop the abuse. Monsters are monsters, and their actions taint the world- and someone must put an end for their selfish actions. The Hand, as extremist as it may be, follow the Code much better than the Children, and as such are less likely to just "snap" one day and fall into slasherhood.. as long as they care enough on "collateral damage", f course.

                      2. I see the Children of Gaia are still extreme pacifists. Much like my previous question, I kinda struggle to see how you can play as a member of that Philosophy, as the monsters often fought dont give a shit about pacifists asking them to stop. So basically, what do they accomplish that gives their efforts credibility instead of slaughtered or completely ignored?
                      What they try to do is to teach monsters how to treat the sacred places with respect. They believe that if they could make monsters take their claims seriously, Mother Earth would be saved and no blood would be spilled. By studying the ley lines and understanding the flow, they can not only discover other Sources, but also show the monsters that they know what they are talking about, and hopefully start converting/redeeming them. Can they do it? Does that philosophy stable? Who knows? There is a string chance that the Children would eventually collapse after understanding how futile their efforts are. There is a chance that the compact would collapse for the same reason. If so, I could totally see the Children just "breaking" and turning into a Cabal, especially if there are enough Lucids among them (see Night Horrors: the Unbidden if you don't know what a Lucid is)

                      3. Originally a Dynasts question, but you answered perfectly (I can even see what would be potential flaws of the group). My new question concerns Tainted places. Do you think Keepers would have the same approach to them as your compact, the Domus, or have a different method to purifying it (likely concerning monsters to be killed/negotiated with)
                      The Domus as written mostly seek to "cleanse" those sites- which means remove the supernatural force from the root. The Keepers, on the other hand, are likely to try and "correct" the Tainted, probably by using a combination of resonance and lay line manipulation in order to maintain the supernatural nature of the site, yet remove the dark effects (that is, Dread Powers and Potency, basically "killing" the monster but replacing it with a Source). Sentient places are another issue- as those sites are seen as a manifestation of Mother Earth's rage, and by quelling the rage they should simply cease to exist.

                      Concerning the Les Mysteres, by the way, I am so sorry. I did not mean that as a criticism. I do see it as a very clean transition to a re-building phase and did notice that the different beliefs were there, just less emphasized. I guess what I meant to say was, much like the Cainites, i love how a big focus of them was how disparate they were.
                      No issue- I got what your intentions were. I have just wanted to clarify my choice for the Mysteres's update, and why I chose to present them in their rebuilding state instead of the original writeup.
                      Last edited by LostLight; 03-06-2020, 05:14 PM.


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                      • Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                        Well, I think that the most redeeming quality of the Hand is that they are, in essence, hunters- the Children of Gaia may be "nicer", but the Vigil is not about being nice. It is about taking a stand against the darkness and fighting the enemy. The Hand knows that monsters abuse Mother Earth, and as such it is up to them to stop the abuse. Monsters are monsters, and their actions taint the world- and someone must put an end for their selfish actions. The Hand, as extremist as it may be, follow the Code much better than the Children, and as such are less likely to just "snap" one day and fall into slasherhood.. as long as they care enough on "collateral damage", f course.


                        What they try to do is to teach monsters how to treat the sacred places with respect. They believe that if they could make monsters take their claims seriously, Mother Earth would be saved and no blood would be spilled. By studying the ley lines and understanding the flow, they can not only discover other Sources, but also show the monsters that they know what they are talking about, and hopefully start converting/redeeming them. Can they do it? Does that philosophy stable? Who knows? There is a string chance that the Children would eventually collapse after understanding how futile their efforts are. There is a chance that the compact would collapse for the same reason. If so, I could totally see the Children just "breaking" and turning into a Cabal, especially if there are enough Lucids among them (see Night Horrors: the Unbidden if you don't know what a Lucid is)


                        The Domus as written mostly seek to "cleanse" those sites- which means remove the supernatural force from the root. The Keepers, on the other hand, are likely to try and "correct" the Tainted, probably by using a combination of resonance and lay line manipulation in order to maintain the supernatural nature of the site, yet remove the dark effects (that is, Dread Powers and Potency, basically "killing" the monster but replacing it with a Source). Sentient places are another issue- as those sites are seen as a manifestation of Mother Earth's rage, and by quelling the rage they should simply cease to exist.


                        No issue- I got what your intentions were. I have just wanted to clarify my choice for the Mysteres's update, and why I chose to present them in their rebuilding state instead of the original writeup.
                        1. Ok, I like this. The Hand as the faction that's willing to take immediate action, to risk their lives for Mother Earth no questions asked, while also staying to the Code because of the extremism, not in spite of it.

                        2. Ahh, so the Children are probably have the most occult know how with Ley Lines. I suppose another advantage is they look to less direct (and less violent) methods to save Source Pools. I actually do find that interesting though, for mortals to FINALLY have something they know about to a greater degree than a gameline splat . EDIT: and yeah I do know the Lucid. The plot hook of the Children becoming little more than that after "snapping" is an interesting angle

                        3. That sounds like a very fun way to deal with Tainted places actually. Would be cool to see how a tainted place changes when Keepers purify it into a Source pool

                        4. ahh ok. If you do continue making write ups for orgs. that are absorbed/defunct now, I would like to see how you see them "re-building".

                        Ok, I'm really sorry since the questions must be getting annoying, but I do have just one more, I promise. What about Source pools in urban areas? Certainly, not ALL of them are in places of nature.
                        Last edited by Primordial newcomer; 03-06-2020, 09:40 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

                          4. ahh ok. If you do continue making write ups for orgs. that are absorbed/defunct now, I would like to see how you see them "re-building".
                          That would be a subject for its own thread, won't it? :P

                          Ok, I'm really sorry since the questions must be getting annoying, but I do have just one more, I promise. What about Source pools in urban areas? Certainly, not ALL of them are in places of nature.
                          Like you said, they can manifest in urban places- and the Keepers would protect them just the same, even though I assume that urban architecture could influence them, and as such the Keepers would object shaping the surroundings. Feng shui and all of that.


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                          • Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                            That would be a subject for its own thread, won't it? :P


                            Like you said, they can manifest in urban places- and the Keepers would protect them just the same, even though I assume that urban architecture could influence them, and as such the Keepers would object shaping the surroundings. Feng shui and all of that.
                            A thread of it's own indeed. If you feel like making one, of course.

                            Back in your answer though, I do find it interesting how the Keepers would be influenced once they learn about Sources being just as likely found in urban environments. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer my dumb questions! It is very appreciated, especially when concerning the less popular orgs (I assume the keepers aren't particularly popular)

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