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The Flame Marches On [Musing About the Future of Hunter's Orgs]

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  • The Flame Marches On [Musing About the Future of Hunter's Orgs]

    So with the new edition of Hunter showing some new drastic changes to the setting and the state of Hunter's organizations, I've thought of presenting a thread meant of musing about how those groups which were not presented in the book may evolve and/or collapse in the time which has passed until the new edition- and perhaps some exploration of the hunter groups which did showed up in 2e, and how they may further develop. Now, I am pretty sure that I have already made a threat like this years ago (probably back in the old White Wolf forums), and I have always toyed with the concept of such changes in the Vigil while doing my Civil Wars and Going Up the Tiers threads, so some concepts may repeat themselves in here as it is hard to let go of ideas which I am fond of. I am also going to first focus on canon organizations, but I may later add my thoughts about my own homebrew groups, as well as some other fanmade organizations.

    And of course, please feel free to add your own visions on how do you think/would like for the events to play out for your favorite organizations!

    Ok, so lets start-

    Ashwood Abbey: As we all know, the Abbey has absorbed the Bear Lodge as what is probably the results of werewolves attacking their strongholds. The Lodge, in turn, is probably the spiritual successor of Les Voyageurs. I would also not be surprised if the Bijin, while disbanded, have left a spiritual successor of their own as a part of Tokyo's hosts, cabarets and escort services- and if that is the case, I could see that legacy being eventually "licensed" by the Abbey. The main competitor of the Abbey is the Hunt Club, into which members sometimes leak- even though that I assume that as the tension grows between the two groups, such transitions become more and more rare. Eventually, a war between the two is likely to happen- and while the Hunt Club has a lot of "old money", the Ashwood Abbey has as much wealth and connections as the Club, as well as a more structured organizations (thanks to the licenses) and the fact that while they leave a bloody trail behind them, is far not as deep and dirty as their competition. That cloud be the Abbey's finest or darkest hour, but I would like to believe that the Abbey would came out victorious- and perhaps even achieve a conspiracy status through the process.

    Long Night: while thousand voices sing for salvation, they do not always sing coherently- and dissonances may rise as a result. The thing about apocalypse cults as that they are very easy to be manipulated, and when you try to redeem monsters it is very likely that some of their darkness may crawl into your heart. Overall, I can see three main paths in which the Long Night could go through- either disband, as monsters creep into the compact and corrupt it from the inside, slowly breaking it into small cults which are manipulated by them, subsumed by the Malleus (which by itself depends on how the MM would evolve, see bellow for details) or evolve into something greater. I am quit fond of the last option, with the Order of St Jude and the Black Pope breaking from the MM and use their own variant of Benedictions while joining the Long Night as their partners. That may be the foundation of a new conspiracy (temporary name- the Celestial Chorus)

    Loyalists of Thule: I think that the Loyalists are one of the organizations which reach up the point where they'll either grow into a conspiracy or collapse under their own weight. My personal theory is that the Three Old Men have already died, yet their mutual hatred and guilt anchor their ghosts into the world- and not just into the world but into the organization as whole- loyalty beyond death, so to speak. Perhaps they would eventually devour the ghosts of the long dead rmoahals, and establish a dead network of information which is spread across the Loyalists. I could also see some of Network Zero, especially the Secret Keepers, splitting from their main compact and joining the rising conspiracy, as well as some members of the Null Mysteriis.

    Network Zero: I am really fond of them reaching a conspiracy level, something which they could do by developing the Monster Media Endowment which would help them recognize true monster data from false one. However, I think that while broadcasting the Vigil and analyzing information is important, it is not enough to actually gain a conspiracy status. Instead, after the Secret Keepers would split from the compact, I could see the other members going full Dollars/CROWD (from Durarara!!/Gatchaman) and developing an app which would allow them to connect hunters across the world. Groups such as the Union and the Night Watch would probably be the main target of such app, and would eventually allow the transition to the Third Tier for the organization where everyone could be carry the candle.

    SWORN: as one of the newest groups in Hunter, it is very hard for me to think how they may evolve- if they didn't had their conservationist angle, I would be tempted to fold them into the growing Network Zero, but the fact that they care about the natural order and such does give them their own identity. While there is no reason for them to not survive as a compact, I could imagine them joining hand with the Keepers of the Source, especially with their focus about protecting the natural order from being abused by monsters. Both the militant factions in the organizations would probably object such a union, and may even defect- but they have enough enemies to make sure they won't survive for too long. I could imagine that with the Keepers' affinity for ley lines could eventually grow into something deeper, and perhaps under Karen's guidance SWORN's ideals they could grow into a conspiracy on their own right. Perhaps in that process, they would rediscover some of the lost traditions of fallen Native American organizations- such as the Keepers of the Weave and the Protectors of Light.

    Aegis Kai Doru: the tension between the conspiracies which make the AKD has been already described in C&C, and I strongly suspect it would go all out when the Sword would discover the Scroll's dealings with witches and werewolves. As the Code of those two factions could no longer coexist, the conspiracy would fall into a civil war, which would end with the Temple siding with the Scroll after discovering the Sword's experiments and attempts in gaining the powers of sorcery. The members of the Sword which would survive the war would probably be a ripe fruit for the Promethean Brotherhood, which could tempt them with the Rite of Hecate and the promise for more power. The Sword, on the other hand, may even have the means to crack the code, and bring the Rite into its full potential- fulfilling the Firestealers' long desired dream.

    Ascending Ones: with the organization already being stated to be the edge for something, I would play it that yes, the Ascending Ones are compromised- mostly by themselves. The three main factions of the conspiracy have always been loosely tied together, and something like the discovery of the forbidden experiments of the Order of the Southern Temple with the Divine Fire or the Jagged Crescent's attention being turned towards the Undying thread, I could see the conspiracy breaking apart. Perhaps the Order would turn full Alchemist Guild, leaving the organization as it turns obsessed after the Created and embraces the forbidden secrets of Alchemy. The Jagged Crescent would start a purge in the group, and I could see the Knife of Paradise deeming both organizations as corrupted and breaking apart from them. The Crescent would be left as the remains of the once great organization, becoming the Cult of the Phoenix and spending years in rebuilding. Meanwhile, the Knife could perhaps join the remains of the Ahl al Jabal in the Middle East, elevating the ancient group into a conspiracy status, with their own means and Endowments. On the other hand, the Illuminated Brotherhood may end up absorbed into the Jagged Crescent, which could help them with some discoveries about the spirit world and new drugs- that is, unless the compact won't collapse under its own weight beforehand, devoured by spirits.

    Cheiron Group: IIRC, there was a mention of Cheiron buying Last Dynasties International, which may allow them to expand their research on that angle. On the other hand, they may also have troubles of their own- someone gives a free passage for rogue cells and escaped scientists, while spreading information to the enemies of the company. Melanie Sweetwater promises a huge bonus for those who would capture the ones behind the operation, but all leads seems to end in the criminal underworld.. and the Underworld. Apparently, Cheiron misjudged the criminal organizations they worked with in the black organ market, allowing the Ningishzida Trading Network to rise in the shadows of Cheiron. Something has to be done with them, but currently the criminal syndicate showed itself too slippery for Cheiron to destroy.

    Lucifuge: the slasher epidemic is far from a good sign to the Children of the Seventh Generation, with it may very well be the result of Lucifer stretching against his bindings. As a result, more among the Lucifuge's cursed lines vanish before the conspiracy can get hold on them. Some thing they are murdered by slashers- others are wiser than that. The Enfant Diabolique grow as the Lucifuge fail, and the Three Blind Men, while not the ones behind the epidemic, are probably riding it for their uses to bring down their hated kin. On the other hand, there is hope- the Otodo of Japan could perhaps join their bloodlines with that of their cousins, granting the Lucifuge access to lost arts and powers unknown to their Western parallel. Other infernal lines, such as my own Tartaruchi, may also find their way to join the Seventh Generation- maybe.

    Malleus Maleficarum: the book has stated that the MM are found in a very peculiar place- while it is still powerful, the power of the Catholic Church declines, and with it the conspiracy's. While they are working with other religious groups, the powers of Benedictions require the blessing of the Pope- and as it is hard for me to imagine the MM using any other way for their Endowments, it would either mean that the conspiracy would become hypocrite which recruits nonbelievers for a false oath for the Pope (which is much more of the Knights of St George's shtick), or that they would have to fight alone. The Brotherhood of St Athanasius, discovering the true mastermind behind the organization, is likely to rebel, yet I assume that Baudolino is smart enough to see it coming, taking precautions. Overall, I could see the order leaving the conspiracy and joining the new Celestial Chorus or making their own compact (which could end up with their fall), leaving the conspiracy weakened and vulnerable to the darkness.

    Task Force: VALKYRIE: after folding the Barrett Commission and as such opening channels into the Congress, and probably having Division VI forced into them as a part of alliance between the vampires which stand behind TFV and the Seers which manipulate the compact, I could see VALKYRIE also starting to recruit the Null Mysteriis after having their scientists killed and kidnapped, which means they are required to find new hunters to fill the void. Those scientists who object the annexation would probably join the Loyalists, as mentioned above. Meanwhile, I can see the conspiracy "supporting" the rise of similar agencies throughout NATO members, which, while officially independent, require VALKYRIE's support for new Advanced Armory, becoming its extensions in practice. Of course, some organizations which are either old (like MI18 as described by KingsRaven) or which have their reasons to remain independent (like my own version for Israel's R.A.M), not to mention organizations which are not in friendly terms with TFV- like Russian and Chinese groups- would still block VALKYRIE from achieving a global control- for now, at least.

    Council of Bones: as the most current incarnation of the organization, I assume that it is a time for the group to grow in numbers and establish its network among its local chapters. The new slasher epidemic means that the Council would have to focus around solving murder cases, turning them into a key player in stopping the plague, while the increasing number of Krewes and Sin Eaters would also mean that the Council has a lot of work to do, either with or against the Bound, who may have their own opinions about how the conspiracy use ghosts.

    VASCU: the other main player in the slasher epidemic, I could see how their psychics work across the world in an attempt to solve the mystery behind it. On the other hand, they always have to keep their eyes open for the FBI, who are still seek to bring down their competition which came back from its grave. While they are looking for Dr. Wintergreen, my guess is that she is in fact the ones who "bought" the conspiracy, having predicted the coming slasher epidemic through some of her connections and experiments. As VASCU spreads around the globe, they would reach Hong Kong, which dearly needs their help. The Nine Stars are doing the best they can, but the horror of the local slashers may be too much for them to handle, and the help of VASCU may be required to stop the murders. Only after the epidemic passes they would discover that Hong Kong is, in fact, a special case- for some ancient, hungry power has generated those monsters even without the global epidemic. With the Nine Stars on the verge of collapse and without support from the authorities, I could see them joining VASCU.

    Ama-San: as cool as those hunters may be, it is hard for me to think about their modern legacy. The ama is a dying tradition, meant mostly for tourist. Perhaps there are a few modern hunters who claim legacy from the original compact, but unless some other group which wants to guard Japan's seas who can learn the secrets of the sea whistle technique, the Ama San's legacy is destined to be forgotten.

    Azusa-Miko: following the last piece about Tokyo which was never published, the compact is still around, and works with the local Sin Eaters to protect the living and the dead. While with the revive of the Council it is not unlikely that they would be absorbed by the Marked, my tendency is having them serving as a part of my "techno-Shinto-revivalist" group of the Aki Ten, as they are dedicated towards preserving the old traditions through modern applications. May very well also absorb the Ama San in some fashion.

    Gimu: yeah, they are probably as dead as the samurai- which mean that their spirit may still linger. Some modern hunters may style themselves after what they believe the Gimu were. They may serve as Japan's form of the of the Commission, or as perhaps some more pulp version of the samurai, depends of how much of the compact's traditions are actually remembered.

    Habibti Ma: as one of the more "support based" groups, I could imagine that as they start reaching out globally they could interact with other groups which help those who suffered from supernatural damage, such as Yuri's Group or the Talbot Group. Dedicated less towards hunting monsters and more towards saving victims (which could include "redeeming" or "healing" monsters), we could perhaps gain a powerful group which keeps the light burning, who may even rise to become a conspiracy, one day (especially if my theory that the Judges, or at least one of them, serves as the power behind the Habibti Ma).

    Maiden's Blood Sisterhood: saying the truth, it is hard to me to see them growing by much beyond their compact status. While the Network Zero conspiracy may help them, it doesn't feel much in-theme. The fact that they may have some witches among them would probably won't help the group to gain some better treatment from other hunters. However, if you were to include Skin & Bones's Aves Minerva (or KingsRaven's Athenic Church, which is a revision of the former), they may eventually join the conspiracy. Heck, they may very well BE the foundation from which such a group rises.

    Reckoning: so yeah, they are barely a compact, and the chances are that if they survive, it would be in order for them to actually develop into one. Even then, it is likely that they would either collapse, or join the Long Night/ Celestial Chorus. Worshiping Beasts is a dangerous thing, after all.

    Utopia Now: and I said NOW. Reaching a conspiracy status must have included an hard work, stealing a lot from Deva Corp and probably absorbing similar organizations, such as MourningStar Developments and the Nimrod Movement (both written by me). With the computer of the first, the Enochian Whispers of the second and their own grand stolen infrastructure, they can build their own Tower of Babylon to challenge God himself and bring uropia to all of humanity... because that NEVER went wrong in the CofD!

    Scarlet Watch: dead and gone.. or are they? I mean, the original families were bound by Fate and Blood, and we all know that those two things don't easily "let go". While the Scarlet Watch is gone, the Heritage House was recently founded- powerful hunter families, who believe in the legacy of the Vigil. Sure, the Watch was founded by nine families and the House by five, but who knows what would happen if the remains of the bloodlines of four other families would join the compact? Who knows what will happen if they'll take their oath anew, and what kind of secrets would be revealed during that dreadful night? Perhaps the House will discover what it has lost- such as the secrets their ancestors once used to hunt the darkness.

    Followers of Musa: being so localized in both time and space, while their techniques for hunting demons is cool, it is hard for me to see them having a modern incarnations, especially considering all of the colonial chaos which wrecked through Africa. Perhaps some modern African hunters would find their secrets, either naming themselves after the dead compact or find their own direction knowing what brought their fall.

    Soldiers of the Forbidden Sun: again, so much has happened through China that it is very, very likely that the compact is broken by modern era. The beginning of the new Sothic Turn, however, may turn Chinese hunters to dive deep into literature, investigating their past and piecing together the forgotten group. Maybe they have even survived for long enough to eventually become a conspiracy, and after their eventual death the modern Chinese government have found their secrets in order to create their own governmental agency which fights supernatural threats.. and foreign powers.

    Cainte Heresy: it is hard to disband something which is not controlled by yourself. The Heresy is broken and shattered, but mostly it is by intention. Perhaps, however, the reason for that structure has gone, and the Heresy could start binding together once more- who knows for what reason. The sources suddenly start to coordinate the conspiracy into something which is more structured similar to how the original Aves Minerva were built, all while spreading new, more potent rituals. Considering the number of enemies that the conspiracy has gained through the years and that many of them don't die easily, it is a dangerous bet- but who knows? After all, the sources are yet to reveal themselves, and if the conspiracy would shatter they could start anew from the ruins.

    Faithful of Shulpae: yeah, they are still around, and it hard to me to see how further they could change. With Sothis rising, it is the time to feast- and some of those hunters are ancient enough to know exactly how to catch their gods when they are the most vulnerable.

    Knights of St Adrian: again, they are also still around. Other than gaining more clients and spreading their infrastructure, I am not sure what other changes would be needed. Perhaps other Powers that Be could heir them for "retrieval" works, like the Gentry, Deviant conspiracies or Alchemist Guilds. Other than that, work as usual.

    Knights of St George: ah, there is nothing like a succession war. The current leader of the Knights is already old, and could very well die without an heir, leaving two candidates. With one candidate wanting to close the borders of the conspiracy and discard those who don't accept the Revelations and the other wanting to break the initiation circles and open the conspiracy to the world, the chances are the first would gain the mantle- especially as the Royal House and Anglicanism try to be more "modern". Her reform would cost the Knights many members, and the truth about the Revelations may leak to the public- which would in turn, lead to even more rigid reforms meant to maintain the secrecy of the group. Perhaps instead of their three Revelations they would immediate demand loyalty from the first one, trading numbers over loyalty. Many cast offs of the Knights, including the other candidate, may find warm welcome in my homebrew Order of the Nameless.

    Les Mysteres: yeah, I have more or less predicted their future disband in my Civil Wars thread, and I guess that it is more or less how things rolled- too many cults with too little connections, and eventually even the spirits, which are selfish entities, won't be enough to bind the group together. Many organizations may rise from the wrecks- i have presented the more syncretic, afro american Les Mysteres, but other organizations- such as east asian, native american, african and even europian groups, may rise from the ruins. Perhaps some of the members in Japan may be absorbed into the Aki Ten, and other create their own compacts or conspiracies, each expression their connection to the spirits differently.

    Merrick Institute: as i have mentioned a couple of times, I guess that the reference about the conspiracy being disbanded referred to the actual makers of the conspiracy, which created it through abuse and pain. Even if not, it is worth to mention that while Merrick have many members in the US, most of their actual organization is found in Canada and Australia- especially the later, where they incorporate aboriginal traditions into their dreamwalking techniques. Using ancient knowledge with new discovers, Merrick could establish itself not only in the physical world, but also in the Primordial Dream- and as they grow up they could perhaps find new connections and ways for their conspiracy to grow in their war against both nightmares and abusers.

    Hototogisu: well, while the Zaibatsu had a plan to take over the vampires of Tokyo in five years, I can only imagine it failed- as we have no more progress about what happened to Tokyo :P Anyway, I still believe they have a strong hold over the supernatural courts, and I could imagine that the rumors about Cheiron loosing a chunk of their offices for Beast attack in Tokyo could be the reason for the "adjustments" the plan requires. Or maybe they did took over all important vampire Zaibatsu, forcing them to work under Inoue's vision, and now the Hototogisu starts to spread. The cuckoo is hungry, and it sees shiny things over sea. It wants to steal them for itself- and after solidifying Hototogisu's control over its home base, it can finally reach outside of Japan, and play in the big sharks of the world. It is finally the time to leave the nest- and lay their eggs all around the world. And when those new cuckoos would hatch, then things could finally be really interesting...

    And that's it for canon groups. I'll ass fanmade ones later :P


    Check my STV content, Or My Homebrew

    "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

    I now blog in here

  • #2
    Wow...

    Now I wish I had backed Hunter.

    Otherwise, I love it! 🥰

    Are you sure about Cheiron buying LDI? I just read the Mummy Kickstarter and LDI seemed to be doing fine.


    “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Penelope View Post
      Wow...

      Now I wish I had backed Hunter.

      Otherwise, I love it! 🥰

      Are you sure about Cheiron buying LDI? I just read the Mummy Kickstarter and LDI seemed to be doing fine.
      It was hinted in Mortal Remains, I think- and even if Cheiron were to buy them, they could still operate, just not as independent as before. Again, as it was only hinted, you could easily ignore that detail.


      Check my STV content, Or My Homebrew

      "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

      I now blog in here

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      • #4
        LostLight Thanks 😊


        “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LostLight View Post
          It was hinted in Mortal Remains, I think- and even if Cheiron were to buy them, they could still operate, just not as independent as before. Again, as it was only hinted, you could easily ignore that detail.
          Oh, but they cant get the Deva Corporation? Whatevs, I cant even remember if LDI was mentioned in the Mummy 2nd edition manuscripts

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
            Oh, but they cant get the Deva Corporation?
            Deva has deep pockets and the attention of the Machine. Also, LDI isn't mentioned in Mortal Remains at all and it's rather difficult to point to Cheiron's alluded-to new acquisitions as Last Dynasty in particular when one of the types of cult in Mummy is "this has a legitimate business working as a front for it" and the incident alluded to in the same writeup seems pretty clear in being "one of those acquisitions was a generational brewery that served a mummy and it broke out of the containment we moved it to."

            Whatevs, I cant even remember if LDI was mentioned in the Mummy 2nd edition manuscripts
            It's the first listed example of a sorcerer cult. They're the ones credited with the classification schemes for Amkhata. They've been incorporated since 1970 and have existed as a cult for far longer.


            Resident Lore-Hound
            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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            • #7
              Iirc, LDI are supposed to be the modern equivalent of Parangelia Seth (Fall of Isireion, DEC 22).


              Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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              • #8
                FallenEco yes. They are.


                “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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                • #9
                  Thinking about it now that you mentioned it LostLight, well, and the fact the Lambent company thing is up, I wonder what other business the Chieron Group has that specializes in supernatural stuff

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