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Three Things I Hate About You [SEKRET PROJECT]

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  • Three Things I Hate About You [SEKRET PROJECT]

    So for some Hunter material I am working on for the STV (I may end up making some more such posts as I am working on this project), I have came to a need to define "top three enemies" for every canon conspiracy, that is monsters or phenomenon which could be tied to the conspiracy due to their target ion the Vigil, the nature of their powers or the people they commonly recruit to their group. While it is sometimes easy, at some cases I've stumbled on a dead end, and as such I've thought to go to the forums and ask for other opinions and suggestions in here. While it is possible to fold all kinds of enemies under the same category (like how both shifters and spirits are folded into the same concept), as some of those targets have defining traits which differ them from others within the same "borad category" and in order to expand our reach a bit I think it is better to avoid such oversimplification, even if it works for Hunter in general.

    Anyway, taking this into account, herte is what I've had in mind, and where I got stuck-

    Aegis Kai Doru- Mages (being one of the two canon targets of the conspiracy), Shapeshifters (being the other one), Mummies (no one likes a competition)

    Ascending Ones- Prometheans (because alchemy), Mummies (again alchemy, and ancient egyptian origin), Vampires (the Followers of Set as their sister cult)

    Cheiron Group- Beast (as Cheiron in mythology was the teacher of Hercules, an Hero), the Contagion (Cheiron generaly has themes of healing and medicine, and one of the Wirtchfinder plot hooks did mentioned their involvement with supernatural plagues), Deviants (Cheiron making Deviants and hunting them down is very, very obvious, even if not outright mentioned. IIRC, the possibility of mentioning them in the Deviant book was even suggested by the previouse dev)

    Lucifuge- the Infernal (this one is obvious), Unchained/God Machine?? (can't say I'm sure about this one), another one which I can't really think about

    Malleus Maleficarum- Vampires (again, a very obvious one), Mages? (it's in the name), Spirit/ Infernal/ Unchained (whatever fits the best for their demon hunting angle?)

    Task Force: VALKYRIE- Vampires (the whole vampire funding thing), I have nothing for the other two

    Council of Bones- Ghosts (like, yeah, that's another obvious one), Slashers (them working with the ghosts ofn the victims to catch their murderers is a big thing for them, IIRC), Second Sight (iirc, they do search after mediums and psychics who already have such abilities even before the Mark, sometimes)

    VASCU- Slashers (their raison d'etre), Second Sight/Deviants (the whole Wintergreen Process, depends if we dwell more around psychic abilities or on the development of the procedure itself), God Machine? (fans did liked to couple VASCU and the Machine together, they did showed up in one of the playtests iirc and the Room of Mirrors, which is known to be the "only strange thing" about them, seems to be co0nnected to that aztec God Machine cult)

    Knights of St George- Mages (again, a very easy one), no idea about the other two, possibly something about abyssal horrors?

    Les Mysteres- Spirits (they are the spirit emissaries, after all). Shapeshifters (their main target), Second Sight? (like, mediums and such does fall into that alley?)

    Cainte Heresy- Vampires (they are very obssessive, after all), no idea about the other two (they ARE very obssessive after all)

    Faithful of Shulpae- Mummies (their sugnature prey), Prometheans (the Maw of Unas, which were also inspired by the Cannibal Hymn, ate prometheans iirc), no idea- what else is divine and is easy to digest? Mages? Vampires?

    Knights of St Adrian- Unchained (their main contract), Deviants? (like, I don't know, maybe the Web of Pain also hires their service from time to time?) Changeling??? (same reason, only with the Gentry instead?)

    Merrick Institute- Beasts

    Otodo- Infernal (their origin has been hinted to be infernal, like the Lucifuge), Changeling (they do show up in their enemy section), Beasts (same as changeling)

    Hototogisu- Vampires (they are a big thorn in the ass of the Zaibatsu in Tokyo), Spirits?, Mage? (they were somewhat prominent in the Tokyo writeups fo those games, and the Cuckoo may be a surviving Pangaean, while it makes sense for them to alsom deal with witches), God Machine? (I think that a connection was theorized by some fans), Deviants? (like, they probably have their hands full in the Web of Pain)

    So that's what I have in mind- any suggestions about filling the blanks for the organizations, or alternative views for my suggestions?


    Check my STV content, Or My Homebrew

    "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

    I now blog in here

  • #2
    On AKD, while the Arisen make sense for rivalry purposes, I should take a second to note that their Greco-Romanic roots and stylizations in the image of their heroes, to the point where the 5-Dot Status is one Part Achilles, one part Indiana Jones, makes it a miss to not mention Beasts as a particular kind of thing for the Shield and Spear-never mind how circumstances can easily lead to AKD lumping Beasts in with shapeshifters, and how the Collectors just exacerbarte that.

    Ascending Ones had call outs of Mummies and Sin-Eaters being long remembered as bugbears in Egypt in Mortal Remain, and as such are viewed as being likely to cause the same sort of shit at any point in time. Add in that MR also explictly calls out the Ascending Ones as the ones who try to understand and aid Prometheans, and you've got a better case for Mummies, Bound, and Vampires-though C&C also noted that the Southern Temple was angling for Promethean creation, so who the fuck knows.

    Cheiron's the most likely to just drop a set number dynamic and go for what the hell ever, but if needs must in times like this, Beasts, Contagion, and Deviants work mighty 'aight.

    The Lucifuge's interest in all things demonic and, at a distance, angelic means that, yes, the Infernal and the Unchained (as well as the rest of the G-M sphere of things), but if you wanna consider an interesting third option beyond dealing with all the ways demons manifest, consider that the Arisen operate the way you want an angelic horror game to operate, Fiends are a particularly delicious shade of demon, and Mummy's corner of the cosmology has the best claim to constituting the majority of the foundation of reality.

    The Malleus Maleficarum have an open order of importance in C&C arranging demons, mages, and vampires as their priorities, demons being the least important, vampries being the most.

    Given that there's oodles of Freemasonry and New World Order and Shadows of Christianity and Roswell/Area 51 and more swirling around that there American identity, a failure to account for Demons is deep and greivous. And also Mages, for all of the above and just a general idea that of course Valkyrie would contests against more Secret Masters of the World types.

    Council of Bones looks mostly 'aight, though what's this, no mummies with an open mandate against the undead?

    VASCU's M.O. of serial killers makes Bound and Werewolves a particularly scratchsome itch, just saying.

    The Knights of Saint George are concerned with keeping reality in check, but the Abyss is their primary backer, so after mages, the good old standby of Demons and Mummies comes to mind.

    Considering that Les Mysteres plays emissary for the Spirits, other people who fuck around with the Shadow stand as an obvious note, so mages and Beasts are easy grabs as the only other two major splats with easy access and active interest in futzing about.

    Cainites hunt vampires. Anything that can conceivably quack like a vampire is open game. Anything that doesn't quack like a vampire can reasonably be assumed to be an asset in the vampires plans somehow. Mostly it comes down to what VII the Sources thinks they should murder, and how individuals relate to the Heresy. Trying to answer this further will result in brains going cat bag.

    The Faithful of Shulape worship anyone who conceivably wants to be worshiped, ie anyone who might run a cult.That's a much expanded list now, but if you want to keep in the vein of humor of eaters getting eaten, vampires and beasts go a long way. Demons must also be noted.

    The Knights of St Adrain are bounty hunters and BadGood Christian boys, so there's a sick appropriateness to them going after changelings and deviants.

    Merrick so obviously has changelings and mages in their wheelhouse.

    THe Otodo deal with Oni. Changeling and Beast follows their Oni very closely.

    The modern Hototogisu are less likely to have prey as conceived and more just want to rule over the supernatural population. Thus their only real competition is with the Honshu Freehold. The fact that the Azusa Miko apaprently backed the Bound of Tokyo might have also been a notice, but basically, no one in Tokyo really has the grounds to challenge them, so much as to avoid being trampled on by them so far.

    Post-unification Hototogisu, by contrast, have the same issue as Cheiron. If you want to get into how they might appropriate from the wheelers and dealers to get the best deals in the occult market, Beasts, Mages, and Deviant Conspiracies are all attractive choices.
    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 09-28-2020, 08:38 PM.


    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
    Feminine pronouns, please.

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    • #3
      Hm. I agree with Most of Arc's suggestions, but i'd say focus a little less on specifically playable splats. as a few potential additions:

      VASCU could work well focusing on Immortals, (thinking about Abnormals, Blood Bathers, Body Stealers and the like), focusing on those who kill to extend themselves

      For alot of the more focused ones, like St George and Cainites, I'd almost always say go for the things that are connected but not the same unless you want to consider the strokes of "favored monster" more general (Cainites with Revenants and Ghouls or Things from Vamp Night Horrors books, St George with things like Proximi and Supernal Creatures)

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      • #4
        I'm seeing an overrepresentation on the mainline splats and an... absence of all the weird shit in the CofD. Maybe it doesn't align with your setting philosophy, or maybe you're deliberately trying to focus on established entities, but my suggestion would be to fill in every one of those blanks with something previously unheard of, or only hinted at.

        Perhaps the Faithful of Shulpae have come into conflict with a sprawling bloodline of demigods, larger-than-life figures who can't trust their senses because the world warps to conform to the myths in their veins and souls. Perhaps Task Force: VALKYRIE is the first line of defense in a war against body snatchers of yet-unknown allegiance and origin. Perhaps the Knights of Saint George fight actual dragons, serpentine monster-kings that breathe forbidden knowledge as destructive as flame. Perhaps the Hototogisu, between trying to leverage the various abhuman factions in Tokyo, must contend with the youkai, which defy reason and make the world just a little more untidy, a little harder to predict and control.

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        • #5
          I'm at work, and honestly it's hard to get into weird shit when you're dealing with codifcation into three main enemies, and even harder in a context where you're trying to speak in a broad communal sense where people can be on the same page as you. I kept it to major splats for those reasons. Could have peppered in some minor templates, I grant.

          I also find perhaps a little hard to also use in the context of the original post. A lot of things can perhaps happen, but the interest is primarily "What are we going to go out of our way to deal with, or are likely to run into in the pursuit of our-being-usness?" These are about primary and common enemies, not the edge cases. Altered Items and Objects of Power, not the Hiss.

          EDIT: Also, Hunter is metatextually interested in playing counter to the rest of the gameliens and revealing how even your good guys are still monsters with consequences to their actions. An overt attention to the main splats through a variety of lens in the "You kind of suck" box is fairly fitting.
          Last edited by ArcaneArts; 09-28-2020, 09:20 PM.


          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
          Feminine pronouns, please.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
            I'm at work, and honestly it's hard to get into weird shit when you're dealing with codifcation into three main enemies, and even harder in a context where you're trying to speak in a broad communal sense where people can be on the same page as you. I kept it to major splats for those reasons. Could have peppered in some minor templates, I grant.

            I also find perhaps a little hard to also use in the context of the original post. A lot of things can perhaps happen, but the interest is primarily "What are we going to go out of our way to deal with, or are likely to run into in the pursuit of our-being-usness?" These are about primary and common enemies, not the edge cases. Altered Items and Objects of Power, not the Hiss.

            EDIT: Also, Hunter is metatextually interested in playing counter to the rest of the gameliens and revealing how even your good guys are still monsters with consequences to their actions. An overt attention to the main splats through a variety of lens in the "You kind of suck" box is fairly fitting.
            Ahh a Control reference. Wonderful game and only example of the Brutalism aesthetic I like

            As for the idea, how does this relate to the possible supplement you're making? Like will it to iver WHY they consider them the biggest threat, or how they deal with them? Also I would put spirits behind werewolves. The Les Mysteres primarily deal with the spirits as emissaries and do so through transaction. And most (I think even the Transcendent camp) sincerely believe all Spirits have to say about Werewolves

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            • #7
              ArcaneArts thanks for your suggestions! While I may argue about some things, it does bring a new point of view for some of the conspiracies which may indeed help me fill the gaps or make some changes to the list. Also, for some reason I forgot to complete Merrick's section- Deviants (or more exactly, Conspirators) should also be on that list, even before changelings and/or mages, due to the nature of the group, I think. Also, adding the Bound somewhere along the lines would indeed make sense, as they are more or less absent from the current list, something which did bothered me.

              SdeSpencer ahm- going to some "subtypes" of the bigger types may indeed be useful, especially for groups like the Cainte which are vey obssessive towards their enemy. Thanks!

              The MG while I agree with you that cool weird things are always cool, for the gials of this project I need something more generelized than a very specific monster- like how "vampire" or "witch" in that context means a wide category of monsters from Hunter's point of view instead of the specific Kindred and Awakened of their respective gamelines. Within this project, I try to find the balance between a "general" category and "specific" monster, for reasons.


              Check my STV content, Or My Homebrew

              "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

              I now blog in here

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              • #8
                I don't know I think the Knights of St. Adrian would also go after Slashers. They are bail bondsmen for their day job after all. It would make sense that they their job would lead them into the path of a slasher that jumped bail and that they need to haul them in.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Grimmi05 View Post
                  I don't know I think the Knights of St. Adrian would also go after Slashers. They are bail bondsmen for their day job after all. It would make sense that they their job would lead them into the path of a slasher that jumped bail and that they need to haul them in.
                  What slasher do you actually imagine gets on bail in order to jump it in the first place?


                  Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                  The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                  Feminine pronouns, please.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                    What slasher do you actually imagine gets on bail in order to jump it in the first place?
                    ones like charmers and genius. at least before they get to the second form. They are more likely to be able to persuade the court to give them bail. Hell even a avenger if the people they killed are evil enough.

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                    • #11
                      I think that for the KoSA, it may be better to think less about who could hire their services to hunt someone and more who the God Machine would hire them to hunt, beside demons. After all, them being the "God's merceneries" is kinda their theme, as it was for their previouse incarnation as the Soldiers of Jibril. As such, instead of them just hunting monsters for anyone who would pay them, it would make more sense to wonder what their main client (a.k.a God) would hire them to hunt. I currently don't have a good answer, but that would be the path I tend more to take.


                      Check my STV content, Or My Homebrew

                      "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

                      I now blog in here

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                        I think that for the KoSA, it may be better to think less about who could hire their services to hunt someone and more who the God Machine would hire them to hunt, beside demons. After all, them being the "God's merceneries" is kinda their theme, as it was for their previouse incarnation as the Soldiers of Jibril. As such, instead of them just hunting monsters for anyone who would pay them, it would make more sense to wonder what their main client (a.k.a God) would hire them to hunt. I currently don't have a good answer, but that would be the path I tend more to take.
                        The problem is that the God-machine has a lot of enemies, and has even more projects that can use a wide variety of resources.

                        This is, in fact, part of the problem of trying to put distinct prey for a lot of the conspiracies. Root reasons make it easy for some, but extrapolating from there basically can include the world.

                        As the Sidearms go, that's a large part of the reason I diverged away initally from the God's Client angle and leaned more into the bounty hunter for hire angle-though notably, both changelings and deviants serve the resource angle upon which the God-machine looks at people, and the True Fae at least are some kind of rival it doesn't idly challenge.


                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Feminine pronouns, please.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah, I really get stuck at some of those groups, especially the more specialist ones, but it does bring some interesting connotations from time to time. For example, rereading the KoSG's Enemy section, it does mention that they do have interest in demons (the general term, which is good enough for Hunter after all), and taking demons, dreams and dragons into account Beasts may make an interesting chosen prey for them. By taking the more general perspective of things like demons and witches (which should indeed be the right way to go), having the Lucifuge hunting demons, mummies and angels would too make sense. Still, even with that, there are a few stretched ideas- like the KoSA. No matter what, anything beside demons would feel weird, but still there is a possibility for other monsters- like changelings and deviants.

                          Again, I have a lot to think about in terms of this subject.


                          Check my STV content, Or My Homebrew

                          "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

                          I now blog in here

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                          • #14
                            Not knowing what your project is, I don't know if this'll be a useful suggestion but anyway.

                            For the KoSA you could just pick a splat that you want them to be interested in right now. For example, Light of the Sun has the mages of Renaissance Italy being particularly prone to messing with the God-Machine; that seems to be something specific to that particular time and place. The modern G-M might have other splats that it's particularly interested in getting rid of.

                            Like, maybe vampire's manipulation of modern institutions (corporations, government bodies, TF:V etc.) is interferring too much with the G-M's plans.

                            Or maybe, the G-M really cares about the success of the Idigam, so it's sending the Knights after Uratha.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Michael View Post
                              Not knowing what your project is, I don't know if this'll be a useful suggestion but anyway.

                              For the KoSA you could just pick a splat that you want them to be interested in right now. For example, Light of the Sun has the mages of Renaissance Italy being particularly prone to messing with the God-Machine; that seems to be something specific to that particular time and place. The modern G-M might have other splats that it's particularly interested in getting rid of.

                              Like, maybe vampire's manipulation of modern institutions (corporations, government bodies, TF:V etc.) is interferring too much with the G-M's plans.

                              Or maybe, the G-M really cares about the success of the Idigam, so it's sending the Knights after Uratha.
                              Yeah, thats the thing. The God Machine could really ask them to do anything other then bring back wayward demons.

                              Vampire nest preying on your cultists? send in KoSA

                              need some spirits to do a thing and the local werewolf pack making it difficult?

                              So IMO you could really lean into there day job as bail bondsmen and bounty hunters. the monsters they would meet just during there day job like slashers and deviants would fill the role nicely. Maybe some changelings if they are contacted by a keeper posing as a bail bond agent or hell even one of the courts trying to track down one of there own that broke freehold law.

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