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Conspiracy Theory: The Aegis Kai Doru

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  • Conspiracy Theory: The Aegis Kai Doru

    It's been a while since I posted something (mostly real life issues about my PhD together with some mental health issues), but I've wanted to do something a bit creative which led me to start writing a bunch of essays around my favorite CofD gameline- which is Hunter, of course. As I assume that anyone who looked at my sig knows, I am a big 3rd Tier fan, and there are many reasons for it. While it is easy to view Conspiracies as nothing besides a playable splat which gives you some cool powers, organizational backup and some weird (and probably wrong) view of the world's cosmology and how the supernatural works, I decided to start a series of essays which dedicated to examine a aspect of Conspiracies which is sometimes being ignored- the fact that they are, well, conspiracies. Conspiracies are generally not just a secretive organization- generally, there is something that they want to achieve, some agenda which the conspiracy tries to gain, and in most parts that agenda looks pretty clear- they want to kill monsters for a certain esoteric reason. However, wanting to kill monsters for esoteric reasons is not enough for a organization to manage to survive and spread across the globe, not to mention possibly rising from its grave again and again no matter how many times you put it down. As such, I am going to take a step back and put up a theory about why the organization exist- or at least, what kind of powers are in play in terms of its origin and place in the wider supernatural world- and of course, I am going to start with what is currently my favorite conspiracy: the Aegis Kai Doru.

    Now, those of you who followed my homebrew have probably noticed more or less what is my headcanon for the AKD- between Igniting the Fire and the AKD's splat book, I have very much wrote a lot about their fictional origin, but I want to go back to the basis and show from where exactly it comes from and how it ties all together, and in order to do so i am going to put my 1st Tier hunter hat and try to connect the dots from the outside as if the AKD is some horrifying organization dedicated for destroying the world as we know it (which it is. Of course it is- it is a conspiracy after all). As such, let's start from the beginning.

    The first thing we know about the AKD is that they are relic hunters- people who gather artifacts commonly used by monsters, or as Hunter 2e likes to call them "Bygones". However, that's not actually true- the first thing we actually know about them is that they are witch and shifter hunters- they blame those ancient enemies for bringing an end for a ancient golden age. But that's also not true- because the first thing we know about them is their origin- the AKD are Greek. It's in the name, after all. That gives us the three most important foundations of the AKD- they are related to Greece, they hunt those who brought end to paradise, and they use relics. So far, so good.

    Now, that gets expanded with other information- the AKD have some unhealthy obsession with labyrinths, both figurative and real ones. As you can imagine, this is very important for their identity, being the Guardians of the Labyrinth, and with labyrinths serving as the places where they hide their preciouses relics. Also, the AKD are basically headhunters- they hold the severed heads of people with high respect, and seek to collect relics based around such heads. We also know that the center of the labyrinth is in Athens, that their members take oaths upon shards of a strange stone and that their origin myth tells that they came from a tribe of exiled mages who had their magic stolen, who guarded four Labyrinths (Isle, Crocodiles, Marshes and the Tomb) and failed when the bull Asterion and the undying Mistress of Honey mated to produce countless shifting offspring, and now they hunt the shifters in an attempt to repay for the damage and witches for stealing their magic. Overall, pretty standard cult stuff, most of which is probably not true... or is it?

    So, let's start gathering the pieces, shall we?

    The first thing we can see is a clear Greek connection- Daedalus is stated to have been a Guardian, the labyrinth, Athens, it all circles around the same mythology. Add to this that the AKD are also very, very old- at the very least as old as Ancient Greece according to Dark Eras, and are actually even older when you consider that wolf spirit who got bound by what seems very much like a proto AKD hunter shortly after the fall of Pangaea. Now, the thing that we need to focus on is that the AKD are not just Greek- but are connected to a very specific Greek myth- the Minotaur. Daedalus was the one to build the labyrinth for King Minos, and the Labyrinth of Crete was made to contain the Minotaur who was given the name Asterion- so we can already see the ties between the AKD's origin story is connected to their culture. Now, while the Labyrinth of the Idle gets most of the focus, we shouldn't forget that there are three other Labyrinths- and we also know that there is a labyrinth in Hawara, which was established next to Croocodilopolis- which, again, we know was created due to the involvement of shifters and in attempt to contain the ghost of a Firstborn. As for the Labyrinth of the Marshes, according to Pliny the Elder, there are stories about Smilis, a contemporary for Daedalus, who was part of creating the "Lemnian Labyrinth", which is claimed to be a misunderstanding of en limnais- that is, "in the Marsh". Lastly, there is also a claimed Italian Labyrinth (again, by Pilny the Elder), which was created as part of the tomb of Lars Porsena. Those are the four "Labyrinths of Europe" (yes, Egypt is in Africa, but close enough) as they are list in Wikipedia- so let's assume that the origin myth of the AKD was not made up by someone who did a short Wikipedia research about labyrinth and think about how would this all make sense- because now we can build a certain geography for the claimed AKD origin- we have Crete, either Samos or Lemos, Egypt and Italy... only that it makes no sense. We know when the Labyrinth of Hawara was built, and we also know that it was probably after the AKD were a thing and before Las Porsena was born, not mention getting buried, and neither of those is related to Daedalus and the myth of the Minotaur. Also, none of those even mentions the Mistress of Honey. In that case- what is going on? Is there a semblance of sense to the AKD's story, or do the hunters who put the such an emphasis on knowledge and wisdom have made up a story based around a single Wikipedia page?

    Yeah, the Labyrinths don't seem to make sense... but maybe they don't need to. Because while there are claimed four ancient Labyrinths, only one of those is the focus of the story- the Labyrinth of the Isle, aka the Labyrinth of Crete, aka the Labyrinth of the Minotaur- a story which is said to contain hints about the ancient lost Minoan culture and how it interacted with the ancient people who would become the Athenians. And that is not the only myth which is claimed to rise from the Minoans- we have another one, a story which is much more entwined with the wider CofD cosmology.

    Atlantis.

    When the volcano blew up and started to decline of the Minoans, it is said that echoes of that event were what inspired Plato to make up Atlantis- a story about a legendary utopia which angered the gods and ended up drowning below the waves, a story of paradise lost. As such, it will not be very wrong to call the AKD's origin story an "Atlantean Story"- a story about a utopia which failed, yet another interpretation for the same event- and connects between two different myth- the failure of Atlantis and the horror of the Minotaur. However, it should be noted that the AKD change how things happened in their version- Atlantis fell not because of the hubris of man, but because that of witches, and because they have failed their duty. In their version, the Minotaur wins, getting the chance to mate with the Mistress of Honey and destroying the world. The AKD call themselves Antediluvians, but in their myth, they are literally descended from those people who were banished from Atlantis before it went down with flames. They are the Minoans, not the Myceneans- their origin is from the isles, not the mainland, and they carry with them the grudge for those who broke the world and brought an end for their utopia.

    So that's it? The AKD is simply the Minoan's version for Thera's eruption and their occupation by the Myceneans?

    Of course not. There are still many other pieces to put together.

    First is that one half of the story is still left undescribed- while we managed to connect the pieces about Asterion, we know nothing about the Mistress of Honey. Now, Greek culture had a few things about honey and bees- like honey being made from corpses (which fits the undead nature of the Mistress) or the Thriae, trinity of virgin bee nymphs from pre Hellenic origin. We also know that the Oracle of Delphi was referred to as a "bee", as bees and honey seems to have been related to prophecy. Now, thing is nice and all, but it leads us to nowhere- but that is probably because it is all too modern. We need something older- the Thriae may be a good start, but let's dive even further- for among the Mycenean and Minoan myths, the bee was related to a goddess called Potina, the "Great Mother Bee" whose priestesses were the Melissa. And guess what? The meaning of Potina is "Mistress"- a title used to describe a nameless chthonic goddess of life, death and rebirth, often equated with Kore aka Persephone- which is, in turn, related to the Minoan Mistress of the Labyrinth.

    You see the dots connecting? good.

    So we have a story which contains the three main identifiers of Minoan culture- Labyrinths, Bulls and Mistresses. We have chthonic themes, as entering the Labyrinth could be thought about a metaphor for entering the Underworld (which connects to Hawara), and a mating between the forces of life (the Bull) and death (the Mistress) which brought an end to a failed utopia. Now, let's go a step further- as the Mistress of the Labyrinth could also be titled to another claimed goddess of Minoan origin- the queen of Crete, Pasiphae, who is famous for the fact of laying with a Bull and giving birth to a Minotaur. Think about it for a second- the order is backwards! Asterion, the Minotaur, is now the father and not the son, and the Labyrinth was meant to stop the two from mating instead of hiding the hideous offspring. It is all upside down- it all works out and comes out inverted all in the same time.

    Ok, so that all explains from where the story came from- but what it actually means? What is it that it tries to tell, and why?

    In order to get that, we need to go deeper.

    First, it should be noted that another figure which is identified as the "Mistress of the Labyrinth" is, of course, Ariadne- which gives some interesting symmetry. The AKD's story tells us about the Asterion and the Mistress filled with lusty towards one another, breaking the world in the process- while the Greek myth tells us about Ariadne helping an Athenian hero murdering her half brother. This could be viewed as just a corruption of the original myth, or instead being tied to the optional origin of the AKD as those who murdered the survivors of the lost artificers and took their stuff- just like Athens is described through the myth as taking over the Minoan culture (like, sure, the Mycenean, but Athens really liked to put itself in the middle of everything). However, there is another way to view it- Just like how Daedalus was (according to Wikipedia) first described as Cretan and later appropriated into Athenian (because, again, Athens), it could be that the myth represents a "second act" of the AKD's origin- one which was lost to history. The first part about how the AKD were banished, and the second how they returned to fix what was broken, an attempt at paradise. In a way, the story happened twice- and perhaps, more than twice. There is a strong symbolism in here- and with the ancestors of the AKD being banished after the fall of Paradise, they now return to avenge the fall.. and potentially, bring a new utopia. It should also be noted that in the original myth, Daedalus was the one who helped the Queen/Mistress to mate with the Bull/Asterion- which has some layer of symbolism here. The original Artificers failed their duty- but they have returned to make things right. Again, without more information about AKD mythology we can't go much further from here- but we do have some other channels to examine- by returning to the other labyrinths, that it.

    Sure, it could be that they are just the result of some bad research- but even then, the dots connect quite nicely. First, the four Labyrinths connect well to four main nations of the Mediterranean which shaped the Western Culture- Minoan, Mycenean, Egyptian and Etruscan, the bedrock of Western mythology and esoterism. Now, the Labyrinth of Crete was already discussed, but we can also see a lot of resemblance, again, to Hawara- the Labyrinth of the Crocodiles was meant to contain ancient evil and stop the unholy union of the ghost of Death Wolf (or Dead Wolf) and the dead Pangaean Crocodile-Sobek. Forbidden union? Check. Chthonic themes? Check. Shapeshifters messing things up? Check. Age of chaos and a failed utopia? Check, check, check. More than that, the focus of the era is the Egyptian queen who was named after Sobek- so we have a Mistress as well. Hawara fits nicely within the themes of the Cretan Labyrinth- but the other two Labyrinths didn't any spotlight, what about them?

    Well, if we were to look on the Samoan Temple (which is the likely candidate for the Labyrinth of the Marshes), we see some strange parallels- it was dedicated for Hera, the Queen of the Gods, who in turn was claimed to be born out of a tree, and the union of her images and the tree was a common practice for her cult in the island. So here we have a Mistress united with a symbol of natural vitality (tree, this time), which is surprisingly fitting to the pattern we have viewed. More than that- not only that the Labyrinth was stated to be constructed by Daedalus' contemporary, Hera also had a festival dedicated to her called the Great Daedala- themes of artifice are strongly found in this Labyrinth as well, connecting it even further to the overreaching themes of the AKD's origin story.

    As for the Labyrinth of the Tomb- Lars Porsena waged a war against Rome, and as we all know, Rome and the Etruscan had some very complicated relationship. From one side, the Latins conquered the Etruscans- from the other, many of their rites and faiths were absorbed into Roman religion- some even say that the whole Remus and Romulus myth has some strong Etruscan base, like the rite for deciding where to build Rome or even the act of murder itself in order to repay for the magical spell which was involved. This story also involves certain themes about shapeshifters- be it the twins being fed by a wolf or (in CofD) the owls which brought Remus into unlife. However, that could be a bit of a stretch- instead, we should focus around Lars Porsena himself and how it connects. First, we are talking about a tomb, which was stated to contain pyramids and their like- which already gives some chthonic themes even before we consider the chthonic aspects of the Etruscan funeral rites as a whole, which made sarcophagi and were obsessed with their dead with at least as the Egyptians if not more. On the other hand, this Labyrinth has no outright supernatural themes- it was no temple and there is no mythology behind it... well, besides Lars Porsena himself. His war with Rome is claimed to be, at the very least, half mythological. Now, one interesting concept here is that Lars Persona has actually got Rome to negotiate for peace and took virgin hostages- one of which have escaped and led others with her escape, Cloelia. Now, Porsena did demanded her return and the Romans agreed as per the treaty, but due to respect for her bravery, Porsena allowed Cloelia to choose to free some of the hostages- and she freed the young men so they could help in battle, becoming a hero for the Romans.

    So, let's think about it for a second- we have a Labyrinth with chthonic themes, a King and a virgin Mistress, which symbolize the union of Etruscan and Roman cultures, and which eventually resulted in the strongest Empire of its time which grew from Minoan, Mycenean, Egyptian and Etruscan cultures, where Rome also resonates with Wolves- which in turn relates us back to the theme of union between humans and beasts, between life and death. The exact locations of the symbols vary, but the themes are all the same- repeating each other again, and again, and again, yet this time there is no failure. Rome becomes an utopia, it brings a golden age... which lasts until its inevitable fall, but that is years afterwards. Those Labyrinths definitely didn't exist all in the same time like the AKD claim, but in a way- aren't all of them tell the same story? Aren't they all repeat the same symbols again, and again, and again?

    And doesn't it sound fimilar?

    Ok, that's enough for trying to connect the AKD to real life history- let's talk about how it relates to the wider CofDverse.

    The first thing we need to take into account is that while the AKD treat the original Minotaur legend as a distorted truth, Spirit Slayers also gives an account where the story is treated as an historical fact... by the Aegis Kai Doru's archives. The AKD themselves support that the story of the minotaur happened more or less as is- which brings the question why to have a secret origin story which subvert those themes? I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to stay consistent? Perhaps to expand on the original story, but not to outright disrupt it with strange references and unrelated names. Yeah, sure, they are a mystery cults- but why go so over the top? Why to overcomplicate their initiates? Is it a part of the Labyrinth? The conspiracy lies to you as its deepest truth? It doesn't make sense- or is it? And worse- it has no relation to their theme of Paradise Lost... but something else does.

    Their enemies.

    The AKD have vendetta towards two kinds of monsters- shapeshifters and witches, who are to blame for breaking the world. And strangely, they are right- we are not talking about Atlantis, of course. That never happened. But the Sundering- that was an actual event, caused by the actions of both werewolves and mages, as both did the ultimate act of hubris- killing their own gods. The Pangaeans were pillars of the world, entities which bridged flesh, spirit and heaven. And while Wolf was the mightiest of them all, there was another who challenged his power- Bull. And not only that, those gods were known to grant pieces of their heart to the first humans in order to bless them with their power- Omphalos Stones, crystalized forms of divine power... which sounds suspiciously familiar to the Oath Stones which the AKD use, and which were suggested as how the conspiracy allows its members to use relics which are usually beyond mortal reach. That checks into the AKD's origin story even more than the mythology they use- a group of none Awakened who were promised a Golden Age by their Wise, only for the actions of both shifters and mages to break the world- but that misses a bunch of other themes, like Labyrinths, chthonic relations, the Mistress, severed heads (which we are yet to cover) and most importantly- Greek origin. It works, and it works well- but what is the meaning of the other half of the story? Why Greek culture? Where everything else comes from? Heck, their whole name refers to hoplites, which only comes into play during the time of City States in Ancient Greece, yet the first evidence we have for those people seems to be far older- some times after the fall of Pangaea, sure, but not millennia later. The AKD are older than Greece, older than the Minoans, and potentially older than the Sundering- they are Antediluvian, they claim, they need to come BEFORE the flood... but which one? And again- what about the Mistress?

    The short answer? Irem.

    You knew Irem was going to be mentioned. It was only.. a matter of time.

    Irem is, in many respects, the "anti Atlantis". Where Atlantis is a symbol, Irem is a object. Where Atlantis was a utopia, Irem was a dystopia. Where Atlantis allowed men to become like gods, Irem allowed gods to become like men. When Atlantis never existed, Irem always existed. And most importantly, where Atlantis succeeded, Irem failed.

    Now, when you read about the Mistress, a number of things immediately come to one's mind- first, a Bee like Pangaean (or maybe a Wasp). Having one of those would make sense, after all, yet would subvert the unity between human and beast which the original myth talks about. The other would be the Melissa vampire bloodline, which seem to disrupt easy dating and are related to both bees and honey while being undead- which is a better direction, but still comes up with nothing- there is nothing about the AKD which strongly connects them to vampires. However, when you thing about oozing, golden substance, one could easily think about another common enemy of the AKD- the Arisen, especially if we consider how the Mistress is also Kore which is also Persephone- the goddess which goes to Hades and returns in constant cycles, which was so terrifying that people were scared of saying her name (hence the title). And even more strangely, we actually have a point which connects both vampires and mummies- the Everlasting, strange, immortal beings which bleed golden ichor and which trap people in amber. Just like how Pasiape was the immortal queen and potential goddess of Crete. If that's the case- if the Everlasting (or the Arisen) are indeed the Mistress, how do they relate to Bull and his children, the Baal Hadad? The gods among men who worship the sun, make labyrinths and use relics to imbue their godhood while being a corrupted legacy of those who originally broke the world?

    Ah. So bull gods, honey gods, and tendency to collect things. Weird how things come up.

    Ok, ok, ok. So we have Bull from one hand, and what seems to be the progenitor of the Everlasting from another, and a labyrinth in the middle. Things start to fall into place- but it is still not complete. We till have two missing pieces- Athens, and heads. And actually, we can hit those two birds with one stone.

    And the stone's name is Athena.

    Athena was stated to be born from the head of Zeus, after all- that's why she is the goddess of wisdom and craft, skills which the AKD would indeed value. She is also a virgin goddess, like the Mistress was before she mated with the Bull. Collecting heads falls very nicely here- it preserve the knowledge of the dead, sure, but in a way, it is also a form of ascension. Becoming an incarnation of Athena in death- and Athens brings us all the way back to the story about escaped Minoans which returned to put an end to the sins of their fathers. And by taking it all into account, we can clearly see what is the true meaning of the AKD's origin story and understand that, in fact, it is not a origin story at all.

    It is a prophecy.

    The story of the AKD is an Atlantean story- it is a symbol, and symbols are absolute in both space and time. The story doesn't make sense because, just like so many of other Atlantean histories which never happened, it too have never happened- but it is still an absolute, still real. Just like the Orders are constant symbols in the Supernal which express themselves in the Fallen, the Labyrinth is, too, part of Atlantis- a story not about those people who were the lords and ladies of the utopia, but of those who were left behind. The mages embody within themselves the signs of the Oracles, of the Watchtowers, of the Exarchs with all of their Tyranny- the mages are the ones who broke the world, but many were left in the dark, being denied what was once theirs, losing their utopia because some people wanted more. The Labyrinth is those people, a symbol for those who lost their light- and which swore vengeance for being betrayed. And within that symbol, there are other symbols- the symbols of catastrophe which are contained within the Labyrinth- the Sundering of Pangaea and the sacrifice of Irem. The Labyrinth contains those three cataclysms, and mentions how each of those failures broke the world- one which never happened, one which did happened and one which will forever happen. And just like how the Orders are being constructed spontaneously as emanations of their symbols, the Labyrinth also emanates itself, all the way since Pangaea. Each of those Labyrinths- the Labyrinth of Crete, Hawara, Samos and Clusium- they all tell the same story, and were in fact created by the AKD in an attempt to fix what was broken, to bring a new golden age- and when they failed, they also worked to destroy them, together with their failed utopias. The AKD was probably a unification of disparate Labyrinth cults, with the most famous one showing up in Crete where they tried to recreate their symbols of the Bull and the Mistress with a Baal Hadad and a Everlasting- but they had to end it after it ended up spiraling out of control, as Atlantis can't exist, and as such they can't create their perfect world. The story tells them, however, how they can manage to win- how to break the system, and create a true utopia. Perhaps every great nation of its age was the product of the AKD building a Labyrinth, collecting the relics of the past and triggering the set of events which would create a utopia, destined to eventually fail. It happened to the Minoans, it happened to Athens, to Britain, Egypt and Rome. In all of those places, the AKD were there, and so did their Labyrinths. That's why the story of the AKD is only half of the picture, why it happened twice- because it never happened, because it always happens. Perhaps right now, the greatest power in the world is secretly being supported by a hidden Labyrinth, and it too will fail as the same story will repeat itself.

    So what is the goal of the AKD, you ask? Why do they hunt down witches and shapeshifters? It is not just about a millennia old vendetta. It is because they need to. Because they are destined to. Because it is written in heaven that the Labyrinth must be created for there are people who will seek vengeance against those who stole their magic. People blessed with wisdom in the crafts and desire to collect the past. And in the end, the AKD hope that one day, they will one- that Paradise will be Found once more, by succeeding where their ancestors failed, by fixing their own flawed symbol in heaven- no matter how many failed utopias they need to achieve it.

    Either that, or they are just a Guardians of the Veil cult going rogue- but where is the fun in that?

    But hey, that's just a theory.... A CONSPIRACY THEORY

    (aaaaaaaand cut)


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  • #2
    It seems so obvious to connect the Labyrinth to the Supernal and yet I never thought of it as a supernal truth before. Though this theory does lead to a certain question; if the Labyrinth as a supernal symbol gives weight to Finding Paradise, is it also the source that will perpetually lead the AKD to ignorance of the Truth? And what of a certain supernal truth brought into being by a certain Arthurian Wizard?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
      It seems so obvious to connect the Labyrinth to the Supernal and yet I never thought of it as a supernal truth before. Though this theory does lead to a certain question; if the Labyrinth as a supernal symbol gives weight to Finding Paradise, is it also the source that will perpetually lead the AKD to ignorance of the Truth? And what of a certain supernal truth brought into being by a certain Arthurian Wizard?
      The way I see it, the Labyrinth is a symbol of containment of the Truth- I would personally play it that where there are mages, Labyrinths and their Guardians are fates to emerge, serving as a pseudo-Order of some sort, and as such would grant them a Sleepwalker status by going through the Initiation even if we were to neglect the fact they take oaths upon what looks like a Omphalos Stone. The AKD are not against the Truth as much as they are against the fall it is destined to bring- they are very much anti-Ascension as it is a very individualistic act which destroys the world, and will not accept a world getting broken for personal aspiration. A collective Ascension- now, THAT is different and basically the dream that the AKD are working towards, give the whole world the Gift of Artifice and create a utopia. That's their goal- whether it can be achieved is another matter.

      As for Myrddin/Merlin, it should be noted that we do have the AKD present in that Era, which, again, involves a miniature Witch War (Merlin and Morgan la Fey), a Forbidden Union (Lancelot and Guinevere- or better, Mordred and Guinevere), a Mistress (again, Guinevere) and the Chapter naming itself after the Black Knight (a alias used, among others, by Lancelot- which plays on Daedalus helping Pasiphae to lay with the bull in some way) and of course- a failed Utopia (Camelot). The AKD are in Camelot because the must be- the potential new golden age calls them, and while the fact that Myrddin played the Ruin into allowing him Ascension, it only serves to support the AKD's vendetta- and in a way, they may have had their "win" in the long term, as Britain did became a global power, and perhaps the foundations for that empire (which some may think about as a "golden age") may have been laid back in Camelot, as the ruin of the utopia was contained into the Labyrinth.


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      • #4
        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
        The way I see it, the Labyrinth is a symbol of containment of the Truth- I would personally play it that where there are mages, Labyrinths and their Guardians are fates to emerge, serving as a pseudo-Order of some sort, and as such would grant them a Sleepwalker status by going through the Initiation even if we were to neglect the fact they take oaths upon what looks like a Omphalos Stone. The AKD are not against the Truth as much as they are against the fall it is destined to bring- they are very much anti-Ascension as it is a very individualistic act which destroys the world, and will not accept a world getting broken for personal aspiration. A collective Ascension- now, THAT is different and basically the dream that the AKD are working towards, give the whole world the Gift of Artifice and create a utopia. That's their goal- whether it can be achieved is another matter.

        As for Myrddin/Merlin, it should be noted that we do have the AKD present in that Era, which, again, involves a miniature Witch War (Merlin and Morgan la Fey), a Forbidden Union (Lancelot and Guinevere- or better, Mordred and Guinevere), a Mistress (again, Guinevere) and the Chapter naming itself after the Black Knight (a alias used, among others, by Lancelot- which plays on Daedalus helping Pasiphae to lay with the bull in some way) and of course- a failed Utopia (Camelot). The AKD are in Camelot because the must be- the potential new golden age calls them, and while the fact that Myrddin played the Ruin into allowing him Ascension, it only serves to support the AKD's vendetta- and in a way, they may have had their "win" in the long term, as Britain did became a global power, and perhaps the foundations for that empire (which some may think about as a "golden age&quot may have been laid back in Camelot, as the ruin of the utopia was contained into the Labyrinth.
        Ahh I see. So the Labyrinth as Supernal Truth seeks containment of Truth, specifically, the containment of Truths that could shatter Utopia (such as the minotaur and mistress and more recently Myrddin's ascension). I will admit, while I can see how it wouldn't be an inherent aspect of that Labyrinth Truth, I can't help but think it implies those that come about as of it (AKD and the order of the black knight obviously) will develop a somewhat willful ignorance, same as mages and their arrogance. Also, I do like the idea they've had smaller wins such as Britain (which is funny as it brings a new perspective to their habit of conquering and taking what they can get their hands on)

        I do have a question regarding the shapeshifters part in this. Are the omphalos stones in any way aware of this (in your view)? Is it possible the world of spirits, whom the AKD knows little about, are aware there is something "familiar" about this conspiracy?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

          I do have a question regarding the shapeshifters part in this. Are the omphalos stones in any way aware of this (in your view)? Is it possible the world of spirits, whom the AKD knows little about, are aware there is something "familiar" about this conspiracy?
          Well, according to Wolf Foe, at least some very old spirits do have memories of the first AKD hunters, and as a conspiracy that have survived for a lot of time and have a tendency to mess with shapeshifters (many of which are related to Hisil) I would imagine that there is general knowledge among spirits about the conspiracy, even if they don't understand it (I mean, some spirits just don't care about humans, so for them all the crazy people who use pointy sticks to deal with things above their pay grade are just all the same). Spirits which may be closer to humanity, especially spirits of confinement, mystery and other similar concepts are probably well aware of the AKD as they fit their symbolism, as well as spirit of the sun, bulls, agriculture, fertility and other concepts- for two reasons. First, the AKD probably have history with the Baal Haddad, and those spirits are the ones relating to them. Second, in my headcanon, the stones which the AKD use are the shards of Bull's heart, and as such they naturally draw the attention of Bull's patron, Helios. Now, the ties between the Baal Haddad and the Uratha through the Rite of Moloch (meaning, let's "sacrifice" the wolf blooded to make them a werebull) would probably also bring them to the attention of the Forsaken and the Pure- but I would imagine that the vast majority of the conspiracy will not know about the connection, and would just hunt the Uratha as "ancestral enemies" and nothing more, but certain Lodges (and probably some Iron Masters scholars) would probably have noticed their activities through the years.


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