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Moving Up in the Tiers- Compacts into Conspiracies

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  • #16
    thankfully, I'll still have some time to think about the Null Mysteriis, for I'm going to work by the order of the compacts- making the Long Night the next in the list. Any ideas for them? for now I think that their "world changing event" will be meeting an angel- you know, because of C&C


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    • #17
      Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
      To me that would defeat the purpose of the NM. The whole point about science is that it's the same no matter who you are, needing to get some crazy G-M powers first isn't science.
      That's the thing though. So is the occult physics of the God-Machine. Stigmata is ultimately secondary to their discovery of symbolism as a predictable, repeatable science. That some of them were mutated by exposure to an alien artificial intelligence is secondary to that, and most don't actually need to be stigmatic to utilize their discovery, nor do they want to. Hallucinations of a machine world mixed with paranoid delusions about being constantly threatened by some sort of construct angel, plus the bizarre physical effects, don't sound like they'd be worth accepting the abilities of some ancient machine to empower them (and of course, they think that making people stigmatic is all the artifact they discovered does-there's a large debate about whether it was meant for peaceful exploration of symbolic physics or creating warriors with Fortean abilities, let alone whether it was developed by a terrestrial civilization or not).

      And for the Long Night, I'd make what their "angel" was ambiguous. Much more thematic if you have to take their visitation on faith.


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      • #18
        It would still be much thematically cleaner to have them find an alternative to becoming stigmatic. Though even then, the narrowing of their focus towards the God Machine dosen't sit right with me. NM study everything and their Conspiracy version should be the same rather than focusing around a single thing no matter how big.

        Besides the G-M isn't the holy grail. It's a lot easier to test and deduce about than magic, but it dosn't explain everything. Look at the Demon Stereotype on The Bound for example.

        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
        thankfully, I'll still have some time to think about the Null Mysteriis, for I'm going to work by the order of the compacts- making the Long Night the next in the list. Any ideas for them? for now I think that their "world changing event" will be meeting an angel- you know, because of C&C
        I might have to refresh my memory of C&C.

        My idea for the LN would be something like apocalyptic doomsday fortresses. The Angel says that they don't need to help the apocalypse along any more, it's on it's way. Just wait a while. So the LN wait in their fortresses, safe from any monster who might end their life before they get to see Jesus again; and while they're waiting they go out and try to save souls. Endowment: Evangelism. It works like Agora Salve.

        Ok, I kinda prefer the Merciful creed; it's nice and unique in Hunter's thematic space. They'd still kill vampires and such, but only because the Vampire is in their way when they're trying to save the innocents locked up in the Vamp's basement.


        “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
        My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
          I might have to refresh my memory of C&C.
          nothing important- just that they seelk after angels (which could look really strange) and could be fooled by creatures who look like one to do their bidding.


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          • #20
            Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
            It would still be much thematically cleaner to have them find an alternative to becoming stigmatic. Though even then, the narrowing of their focus towards the God Machine dosen't sit right with me. NM study everything and their Conspiracy version should be the same rather than focusing around a single thing no matter how big.

            Besides the G-M isn't the holy grail. It's a lot easier to test and deduce about than magic, but it dosn't explain everything. Look at the Demon Stereotype on The Bound for example
            I never suggested that they narrow their focus, only that they find something that's a good starting point for the real work, and provides context for Fortean phenomenon. The vampire is able to utilize blood to perform his powers, as symbolic physics allows him to transform his stolen blood into energy to accomplish those same feats.

            But that's a good point. They aren't necessarily stigmatics-they don't need to be, they've invented a work-around. Behold, the power of Science.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Leliel View Post
              I never suggested that they narrow their focus, only that they find something that's a good starting point for the real work
              And this is what bugs me about the idea in a nut shell. The stuff they're doing now is as much "the real work" as anything they'll be doing in the future.


              “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
              My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
              Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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              • #22
                Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
                And this is what bugs me about the idea in a nut shell. The stuff they're doing now is as much "the real work" as anything they'll be doing in the future.
                Oh okay. I see the disconnect, and I completely agree.

                I'm trying to say the canon Null Mysteriis is sort of like the paranormal version of Victorian science, very smart people working with very little information, and coming up with theories that make perfect sense at the time and foreshadow greater discoveries to come, but in retrospect rather strange and silly (luminiferous aether comes to mind, as does homeopathy before germ theory), but dammit, they're trying!

                I imagine the conspiracy version of Null Mysteriis is something more like early-modern physics in the era of Einstein; they've developed the beginnings of the Theory of Everything, and are pointed in the right direction. More importantly, they've developed enough working knowledge to develop an Endowment, because they know the nitty-gritty of the more arcane physical laws of the nWoD (that these are generally under the header of Things Man Was Not Meant To Know, given the attitude of the Mysteriis, is probably viewed as "Challenge accepted"). I'm not denigrating what they do now, I'm just saying that they've only just begun their journey down the rabbit hole, and they suffer for it.


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                • #23
                  Now that I can agree with. It's just that, I don't think that the G-M provides that. In fact I think they'll have to make the progression from Victorian to modern for each major gameline separately. Some will be easier than others and yeah, the G-M will be among the easiest but studying it won't really say much about Sin-Eaters.


                  “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
                  My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
                  Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
                    Now that I can agree with. It's just that, I don't think that the G-M provides that. In fact I think they'll have to make the progression from Victorian to modern for each major gameline separately. Some will be easier than others and yeah, the G-M will be among the easiest but studying it won't really say much about Sin-Eaters.
                    Probably a good point.


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                    • #25
                      So the conspiracy version of Null Mysteriis will be about finding the "Theory of All" which combine both mundane and supernatural scientific laws? sounds legit. I wonder how their Endowments would work..


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                        So the conspiracy version of Null Mysteriis will be about finding the "Theory of All" which combine both mundane and supernatural scientific laws? sounds legit. I wonder how their Endowments would work..
                        Various experiments with things they've found, using mundane scientific equipment to play with various occult substances, whether inorganic or not.

                        First, though, the Long Night. My guess it has to do with less formalized religious power than the Benedictions, more to do with general effects and Conditions, to keep with their evangelical grassroots theme.


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                        • #27
                          The Maiden's Blood Sisterhood already has witches rumoured to be among its membership, so a witchcraft Endowment is a pretty natural fit, and doesn't even need a major catalyst to get there, just the knowledge spreading. Something neopagagan, probably: charms, wards, blessings of luck, healing, hiding, that sort of thing; Benediction probably makes the best model system-wise.

                          Riffing off of what Leliel said, Null Mysteriis's Endowment could be modelled off of the path-based magical Endowments like the Rites du Cheval, but rather than spells, they're devices that utilise different supernatural energies, The "paths" would divide up by energies: scientific-sounding analogues of vitae, essence, sekhem, and pyros (or maybe swap pyros for aether),

                          The Barrett Commission... the only way I could see them becoming a full-scale supernatural conspiracy would be to discover another such group infiltrating the halls of power, destroy it, and take its power for themselves. That would probably imply some sort of systematic magic, perhaps one connected with the idea of sacred kingship, which the Commission have sort of repurposed to the idea of patriotism rather than monarchy. Castigation might be a good model, in the sense of it granting you up to five of the powers associated with divinely ordained true kings.

                          The Keepers of the Source... their worldview being what it is, I think they'd resist trying to develop an Endowment, certainly one that even looks like it might draw on places of power. The closest I can think is some sort of psychic power that draws on the user's own life energy.

                          The Bear Lodge... their motive is basically to prove they can, which means that if they come regard the Vigil as sacred, it's the act of it, not the goals that they'll revere. So if that philosophy were to spread among them - that hunting is something sacred, to be undertaken in reverence to the act of it, they might start seeking out some form of hunting magic. Maybe communing with the genius loci of the places they move through to enhance their tracking and suchlike (a path for tracking, a path for survival, and a path for concealment).

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
                            The Maiden's Blood Sisterhood already has witches rumoured to be among its membership, so a witchcraft Endowment is a pretty natural fit, and doesn't even need a major catalyst to get there, just the knowledge spreading. Something neopagagan, probably: charms, wards, blessings of luck, healing, hiding, that sort of thing; Benediction probably makes the best model system-wise.
                            I'd be tempted to base it of Rites of Denial with literal maidens blood. I like making references out of names.

                            That said; I've always liked the idea that the MBS always knew they had witches on the membership and most newbies tried to learn magic with little success. Not that you need an Awakening or anything unpredictable like that, rather it's just really really hard. Like PhD level mathematics. An Endowment would then be finding a series of rituals that anyone can do with little trouble.

                            Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
                            The Barrett Commission... the only way I could see them becoming a full-scale supernatural conspiracy would be to discover another such group infiltrating the halls of power, destroy it, and take its power for themselves. That would probably imply some sort of systematic magic, perhaps one connected with the idea of sacred kingship, which the Commission have sort of repurposed to the idea of patriotism rather than monarchy. Castigation might be a good model, in the sense of it granting you up to five of the powers associated with divinely ordained true kings.
                            Maybe base it on Unknown Armies style True Executives. Just like a True King is bound to the land, a True Executive is bound to an enterprise. They start with a goal and have powers to help make that goal reality and boost subordinates working towards the same goal. The Suits usually make money, the Quorum push polices and get elected, and the Five Stars win wars, all have goals based around keeping vampires out of Capitol Hill.

                            However deep down, the idea of sacred kingship was that the king's responsibility was to look after the people. The sacred executive's only responsibility is to the bottom line. Feudalism failed utterly at being good for the common folk while capitalism is a big success for the bottom line; but ultimately is it better to do the right thing and fail or the wrong thing and succeed? I think this is a nice expansion of the Barrett Commission's dark side to an Endowment.
                            Last edited by The Kings Raven; 12-23-2013, 06:27 AM.


                            “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
                            My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
                            Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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                            • #29
                              so, it's Wednesday again, and you better prepare yourself for the Apocalypse- for here come the Long Night!

                              The Long Night

                              The Long Night are diverse. They've always been. However, one thing has always united them- the End of Times. Suffering in the Tribulation until the Rapture would come. The Apocalypse, when Jesus would return and the righteous would be saved from this world of darkness. The hunters of the Long Night are united with their faith, and that faith has led them to try and save the souls of others or fighting the monsters with zealously.

                              In order to help the Apocalypse to come, the faithful hunters of the Long Night has did their best to proof their righteousness- and finally, after years of work, their efforts has finally paid off. It has all started in the 1.7.13- which is a very important date. during that time, three among the most charismatic leaders of the compact has fallen in their place, covered with white halo while in coma. The event has made the members of the compact start to panic, not sure if it is a sign for the power of Satan or God, with the number 7 stand against the 13. Two days later, another prominent member has fallen into the same state, and the panic has turned into an hysteria. Four days later, another three has fallen- and the faithful hunter couldn't miss the numerological importance. With seven leaders in a coma on the 7.7.13, it truly looked like it was a sign.

                              The fear inside the compact has swelled with each and every day, not sure what was supposed to happen now- are they attacked by the forces of Hell? Is it the Rapture? And if it is the Rapture, why aren't all of them join their leaders? Are they don't righteous enough? Those thoughts has made the more zealot members of the compact to start act a bit.. crazy. Some has started to attack the monsters without stopping, and many members were lost during that time. Others have committed mass ritual suicide, believing that this way they would reach Heaven. The Merciful, who were the most stable creed, tried to do their best to keep things under control, but at each day which passed the panic spread more and more.

                              At the 13.7.13, happened a thing which turned the hysteria into madness- seven more members of the compacts has fallen. doubling the number of leaders in coma into 14. Many hunters, believing that the End is near at every moment, has bonded together for suicide missions against vampires, shifters and witches. The rest of the hunters, however, decided on the a different way to deal with it. The remaining leaders of the compact has gathered the members together with their fallen leaders and told them to pray the whole night. The members, each with his own faith and way, has joined together and prayed that may the world become better thanks to the coming of the Christ and that may the Apocalypse will come and pass, finally purifying the darkness.

                              And when the clock hit midnight, another sign has came.

                              Suddenly, a great white light has filled the room, shining like a new sun- and behind the light, all of those present could feel a.. presence. Something they couldn't see with their mortal eyes, but their soul has felt. And after the light passed, the 14 sleeping members of the compact has awakened. They told the other members that they have done well, for this was a trial by God himself to see if they are truly righteous enough to serve as a path to the Christ- this was their Long Night. Their faith has opened the gate, and as long as they keep their faith, the Rapture would come. Also, the leaders has told them a story about their revelation- that while they slept, an angel has came to them and told them they have the potential to save the souls of others, and that it awakened that potential in them. They have became a bastion of their faith, and as such those who will become part of the Long Night will be saved when the fires of God would clean the world.

                              The angel also said that they still have one mission in order to usher the Apocalypse- they must find the 147 saviors of humanity, which are hidden in the world. Once they'll join, Jesus would finally return. In order to proof its words, the angel promised that another sign would show in the next day. When the members asked about which sign will it be, the leaders replied that the angel told them they would know. When the members asked how the angel looked like, the members simply started to cry, telling them it was "out of this world".

                              When the sun rose, the members of the Long Night has discovered the sign the angel has promised. Outside of the place where they prayed there were 13 burned corpses of vampires. The bloodsuckers has found out that the source of the wild attacks lately has came from the Long Night, and went to get rid of them- and the light of the angel has burned them to ash. Apparently, the date truly had a numerological importance- 14.7.13. 7 members has fallen in the 7th, and the light of the 14 awakening members has burned the 13 creatures of darkness. After that, the members has started with their mission to seek and save as many souls as possible before the coming of the Apocalypse while searching after the 147 hidden saviors. During their attempt to requite new members, they discovered that the angel truly blessed them with the ability to saver others- their tongues now carried a mystic power, and people had to listen to their words.

                              Thanks to the angelic gift, their numbers grew, and with it their knowledge and understanding. While they remained diverse as always, they were united under a new mission and the vision of the angel, under the supervision of the 14 Prophets, as now those who has seen the face of the angel were called. While each had his own agenda and way, their united revelation has bonded them together in bonds which are deeper of blood. That made the members start to fear from what would happen if one of the 14 would die, but the Prophets has promised them that they don't need to worry. If it meant that another prophet will join once one would fall, that the Jesus would come before any of them would die or something else entirely is, currently, unknown.

                              Status:
                              0- Instead of Evangelism as a specialty, you get it as an Endowment- or, as the members of the Long Night prefer to call it, Blessed Speech
                              000- same
                              00000- same

                              Endowment: Blessed Speech (0-00000, special)

                              The angel said it awakened their ability to save others, and it meant so they could do it with words alone. Blessed Speech is an Endowment which allow the members of the Long Night to convince, scare and even save those whom listen to them. Each Blessed Speech is based around a single Condition (see GMC rules update), and is rated from 1 to 5. The Endowment is built around rolling Persuasion while talking with the target. The target doesn't need to try and listen to the hunter, or even to understand what he says- so the hunter can talk with English to someone who only understand Spanish, or even a vampire which has awakened after the sleep of the thousand years- this is the gift of their angel. The only limitation is that the target must be able to hear the hunter (meaning, deaf people are not a valid target) and that the target must have a mostly human mind (so abyssal entities, spirits, animals and others inhumane things are not a valid targets. Humans, vampires, werewolves and witches are). If there is more than one target which could hear them, the hunter can decided who to effect with his Speech and who not to effect- the target just feels that the words are directed to her and not to the others. The Speech must be live, so recording the Speech won't keep the effect.

                              The use of the Endowment is otherwise identical to the use of Persuasion, with the hunter add a number of dices equal to his number of dots in the chosen Blessed Speech. A dramatic failure mean that not only means that the attempt has failed, but that the hunter couldn't believe that it failed, losing some of his faith in himself- together with a Willpower point. A success means that the hunter has managed to convince the target with his holy words- and force on her the chosen Condition. The effect lasts for number of hours equal to the number of dots in the chosen Blessed Speech. And Exceptional Success means that the Condition effects for number of days equal to their dots in their chosen speech. Most people who are target by an exceptional success are usually easy to be requited by the Long Night, and are pretty surprise to discover few days later to the conspiracy "for their own sake".


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                              • #30
                                *pbbt*

                                Weaponized evangelism!

                                Why does this make so much sense, and is yet so hilarious?


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