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Conspiracy: Hakollel shel Hamerkava, The Secret Names of God

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  • #46
    I haven't gotten around to reading Promethian 2E yet. Could you give me the executive summery of what you think should be integrated into Hakollel?



    “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
    My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
    Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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    • #47
      They present the descendants of Loew, who not only still maintain a connection with the Golems but also protects their community from ghosts and other threats. The way they are presented makes them feel more like hunters than alchemists.

      (it also includes a pact between the Tammuz and the lineage of Loew in which every ten a new promethean "community guardian" is created from a body in the Jewish graveyard and serves in that role for a decade before creating a new progeny and starts his Great Work)
      Last edited by LostLight; 08-24-2016, 03:47 PM.


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      • #48
        Are they compatible with Hakollel as written?

        I'm guessing not from Deionscribe's question, but details would be useful if I'm going to update Hakollel (no promises though, with Leviathan and Princess I'm quite busy)
        Last edited by The Kings Raven; 08-24-2016, 03:56 PM.


        “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
        My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
        Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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        • #49
          ammmm the main difference is that the relationships between the sons (and daughters, according to P:tC 2E) of Loew is that the relationships between the lineage and the prometheans are pretty peaceful, but the source of those relationships are attributed to the son of Loew (the original Golem was Unfleshed, but the one made by his son was Tammuz). Other than that, they are not well described, leaving a place for imagination, with the only emphasis is one them literally being the living descendants of Loew.


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          "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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          • #50
            Originally posted by LostLight View Post
            ammmm the main difference is that the relationships between the sons (and daughters, according to P:tC 2E) of Loew is that the relationships between the lineage and the prometheans are pretty peaceful, but the source of those relationships are attributed to the son of Loew (the original Golem was Unfleshed, but the one made by his son was Tammuz). Other than that, they are not well described, leaving a place for imagination, with the only emphasis is one them literally being the living descendants of Loew.
            It sounds like all I'd need to do is remove the options to play a guy who kills or re-enslaves Golems from the House of Loew.

            No issues here. I put those options in because toolbox. But personally I always preferred The House of Loew as being the guy who goes up to a Golem and says "you're trying to learn about humanity, I'm a Rabbi, I can teach you."

            Originally posted by LostLight View Post
            (it also includes a pact between the Tammuz and the lineage of Loew in which every ten a new promethean "community guardian" is created from a body in the Jewish graveyard and serves in that role for a decade before creating a new progeny and starts his Great Work)
            That seems odd. Why is there a distinction between being a community guardian and the Great Work?

            Being a community guardian sounds like the perfect opportunity to master Bronze, while being accepted in a community is a great time to master Gold. It's not a bad time to follow Iron either.
            Last edited by The Kings Raven; 08-24-2016, 04:11 PM.


            “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
            My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
            Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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            • #51
              Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
              That seems odd. Why is there a distinction between being a community guardian and the Great Work?

              Being a community guardian sounds like the perfect opportunity to master Bronze, while being accepted in a community is a great time to master Gold. It's not a bad time to follow Iron either.
              I assume it is because that being stuck in a Role is a Breaking Point for Pilgrimage- you are meant to be a pilgrim, after all, and you can settle down until you finished your journey.

              that is- being a community guardian is not the problem with the Great Work- being stuck at one place and not moving on is.


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              • #52
                How long are you supposed to be in a Role for though? Are pilgramages really short* or couldn't you split it into a comfortable 3 years per role?

                *Which might make sense, given the length of a game actually. But you could always start the Pilgramage before the 10 years are up. Do most of your community guarding, then hit Bronze and Gold so you finish both roughly when your ten years are done.


                “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
                My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
                Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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                • #53
                  That changes- you get stuck in a Role once you finish your Milestone yet keep playing your part and not move into a new Refinement. Fulfilling your "service for community" (which is at least decade) could be a Milestone any Tammuz from that line has to fulfill, and once they do they have to move on.
                  Last edited by LostLight; 08-24-2016, 08:01 PM.


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                  "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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                  • #54
                    For a tentative suggestion, perhaps the stuff on the Sons of Loew could be revised so that rather than bind Golems into obedient protectors, the magic they use allows them to interact more easily with humankind while they are in Prague?

                    I could probably see it working in a manner akin to Sanctuary Athanors in that it reduces the likelihood of Disquiet, but it is more effective than them in that the Wasteland is reduced (or even purged altogether for the duration of their service).


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                    • #55
                      It will either be that or not mentioning it. Since I'm going for the 5/5/5 split common to Hunter suppliment Endowments I don't want to make any that only work on Promethians. So Shemot will be useful because it lets them spot Created or protect themselves from Disquiet and Wastelands.

                      Wheather I go into any detail about the various other magic Hakollel has access to, we'll see.


                      “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
                      My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
                      Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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                      • #56
                        I love this Conspiracy and I love the vigorous and intelligent debate people have been having about it. Just a few questions.

                        1) Are you actually saying that (at least in your homebrew CoD universe) these Shemot are truly the names of Hashem? Or are the names written down here more like synonyms or purposely incorrect pronunciations? Cause while my character might be holy enough to say them in-game, I really don't feel comfortable saying even fake true names of G-d out loud.

                        2) What's the dice pool for The Lord that Healeth?

                        3) More of a suggestion, but perhaps instead of getting a penalty for using the Shemot on a Sabbath (excluding saving lives), it should be entirely impossible to use them on the Sabbath (unless saving lifes)? Even Hashem is said to rest on the seventh day


                        A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                          I love this Conspiracy and I love the vigorous and intelligent debate people have been having about it. Just a few questions.
                          Thank you

                          Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                          1) Are you actually saying that (at least in your homebrew CoD universe) these Shemot are truly the names of Hashem?
                          I won't canonically say one way or another. IMO everything involving gods in the WoD (whether the Abrahamic God or someone like Zeus) should be left as something of a mystery. However what I can say is that all the evidence around Shemot points to them truly being the names of Hashem.

                          So either they really are; or something extremely powerful has gone to the trouble of faking it.

                          Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                          Or are the names written down here more like synonyms or purposely incorrect pronunciations? Cause while my character might be holy enough to say them in-game, I really don't feel comfortable saying even fake true names of G-d out loud.
                          Fair enough. It shouldn't be hard to come up with some workaround. Referring to them by number, in English, it depends on where you personally draw the line.

                          Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                          2) What's the dice pool for The Lord that Healeth?
                          Intelligence + Academics. All Shemot but the Greater Shemot use Intelligence + Academics.

                          Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                          3) More of a suggestion, but perhaps instead of getting a penalty for using the Shemot on a Sabbath (excluding saving lives), it should be entirely impossible to use them on the Sabbath (unless saving lifes)? Even Hashem is said to rest on the seventh day
                          But then you wouldn't be risking a Dramatic Failure
                          Save
                          Save


                          “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
                          My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
                          Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post

                            But then you wouldn't be risking a Dramatic Failure
                            Save
                            Save
                            that's true. Is -5 enough to consistently risk Dramatic Failures though? Haven't played enough games to know. Also, this is probably something the ST could decide to do, but perhaps a stacking penalty if you're not only using them on Shabbat, but using them for selfish reasons, such as increasing your own power in the local community.


                            A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                              that's true. Is -5 enough to consistently risk Dramatic Failures though? Haven't played enough games to know.
                              Not really, but by tradition it's the maximum penalty in a World of Darkness game. It can stack with other penalties though.

                              And yes, STs should be imposing other penalties. That's not an exclusive list.



                              “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
                              My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
                              Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
                                It will either be that or not mentioning it. Since I'm going for the 5/5/5 split common to Hunter suppliment Endowments I don't want to make any that only work on Promethians. So Shemot will be useful because it lets them spot Created or protect themselves from Disquiet and Wastelands.

                                Wheather I go into any detail about the various other magic Hakollel has access to, we'll see.
                                I kind of want to try my hand at expanding/updating that sidebar on Golems, seeing as I have a lot of free time on my hands and I've been making some contributions to LostLight's hunter writeups.

                                Is it alright with you?


                                "My Homebrew Hub"
                                Age of Azar
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