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Hunter 2e: Hunters and Supernatural Merits

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  • Hunter 2e: Hunters and Supernatural Merits

    One of the things I'll be most interested in with Hunter 2e (and I'll be super disappointed if there isn't at least a sidebar addressing this) is how the game will handle the new supernatural merits that have been introduced in the Chronicles of Darkness rulebook and Hurt Locker?

    How will they interact with Endowments? Will Endowments be made into Supernatural Merits for simplicity's sake?

    But all of that is stuff we don't know yet. What we can talk about is how we personally would handle them. In what situations would it be a good idea to let Hunter characters take Supernatural Merits? And how do you think this would work from an in-universe perspective? Someone who can light things on fire with his mind is going to have a somewhat rocky relationship with the Hunter community. He might feel more kinship with the monsters, based on what course his life has taken. Regardless of how human he is, other hunters might consider him dangerously close to being a monster. Cheiron might want to carve him up and study him. TFV might want him chipped and monitored.

    That opens the door to discussing how "human+" characters (as opposed to characters enhanced beyond human by enhancements) operate within the various Compacts and Conspiracies. Obviously, some of them try to keep it hidden, which has plenty of plot potential. Since VASCU is made up of "natural psychics", I could see them being an advocate in the larger Hunter community, using themselves as an example of how not every esper is a Carrie waiting to happen.

  • #2
    According to a question I once asked David in the Hurt Locker thread, Endowments (or at least, some of them) are considered Supernatural Merits in relation to the Supernatural Tolerance merit, and I think that they always were (at least, conceptually). They are simply a form of Supernatural Merits which are easy to acquire for any member of a Conspiracy. Witchfinder did in fact discussed the matter a bit, I think (under Gifted Hunters). All in all, the major difference between Endowments and regular Supernatural Merits is that the later simply "happen" to the character. When enough people acquire more or less the same merit, through more or less the same method, and it can be recreated and used to give it to new members, the merit turns into a true Endowment.

    On the other note, maybe it's just me, but I can't say there is anything "natural" in the Wintergreen Process.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by LostLight View Post
      According to a question I once asked David in the Hurt Locker thread, Endowments (or at least, some of them) are considered Supernatural Merits in relation to the Supernatural Tolerance merit, and I think that they always were (at least, conceptually). They are simply a form of Supernatural Merits which are easy to acquire for any member of a Conspiracy. Witchfinder did in fact discussed the matter a bit, I think (under Gifted Hunters). All in all, the major difference between Endowments and regular Supernatural Merits is that the later simply "happen" to the character. When enough people acquire more or less the same merit, through more or less the same method, and it can be recreated and used to give it to new members, the merit turns into a true Endowment.
      So, basicly, all Conspiracy level hunters are Sleepwalkers?! Gosh, I did not see this coming! And I like implications of this.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

        So, basicly, all Conspiracy level hunters are Sleepwalkers?! Gosh, I did not see this coming! And I like implications of this.

        Malleus Maleficarum, Knights of St. Gorge and Order of Nameless - preper to kick my players mages asses!
        I don't see advanced armory as being specially supernatural.

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        • #5
          Yeah, it depends on the endowment. Elixir for example would only make you a sleepwalker whilst actually under the effects of it, relic would probably only for the time that you're actively using a relic. If it grants an innate power it'll turn you into a sleepwalker, if it temporarily grants one then it will make you one when the power is granted to you and if it is an item it depends on the items.

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          • #6
            I imagine some Endowments will be Mental, some Physical, some Social, and some Supernatural.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Fumus View Post
              Yeah, it depends on the endowment. Elixir for example would only make you a sleepwalker whilst actually under the effects of it.
              Elixir is a supernatural ability to turn poisons you drink into harmless substances. There's nothing normal about being able to drink mercury then turn it to water inside your stomach.

              (I hope that 2E lets Elixir defend you against being poisoned and similar, I don't think it would be a particularly useful ability, but the fluff says you should be able to do it)


              The only Conspiracy tier Endowments that I would say are non-Supernatural is Advanced Armoury and Relic. And I'd expect that the AKD will get a Supernatural benefit from Status.


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              • #8
                Eh, easy enough to handwave Advanced Armory privilege only granted by TFV after you go through a two-week long Mental Defense Training course, or something.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  Malleus Maleficarum, Knights of St. Gorge and Order of Nameless - preper to kick my players mages asses!
                  Didn't your players one-hit Hastur? You might need more than a few sleepwalkers.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                    I imagine some Endowments will be Mental, some Physical, some Social, and some Supernatural.
                    ...huh. Breaking Endowments down into categories the way regular Merits are actually makes a lot of sense, and answers the question of how to give mechanical support to non-supernatural groups like most Compacts.

                    I really like this idea, especially if there are generic Endowments for all groups and/or homebrew setups.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Michael View Post
                      Didn't your players one-hit Hastur? You might need more than a few sleepwalkers.
                      King in Yellow is one Royal Avatar - Conspiracies have hundreds, or even thousands of agents worldwide...


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                        ...huh. Breaking Endowments down into categories the way regular Merits are actually makes a lot of sense, and answers the question of how to give mechanical support to non-supernatural groups like most Compacts.

                        I really like this idea, especially if there are generic Endowments for all groups and/or homebrew setups.
                        Yeah; I wouldn't mind that at all. But then, I've always been a fan of the notion that there needs to be at least a partial decoupling of Endowments from Tier 3; so I love the idea of redefining “Endowment” as “a Merit that is usually provided by a hunter org”, with a note that most (but not all) Supernatural Endowments are provided by Conspiracies, and that most (but not all) Conspiracies provide Supernatural Endowments. TFV and AKD serve as examples of Conspiracies that arguably don't provide Supernatural Endowments (if one defines “Supernatural Merit” as “a Merit that makes you supernatural” — or, in Mage parlance, a Merit that makes you a Sleepwalker); and if the Cainite Heresy and Les Mysteres can be reclassified as Compacts due to their lack of organizational structure, they'd serve nicely as Compacts that grant Supernatural Endowments.

                        Then bring in the Compact Endowments from Compacts and Conspiracies as examples of Physical, Mental, and Social Endowments.

                        I'd even allow independent Cells to devise their own Endowments — but with the caveat that doing so generally requires a chronicle's worth of effort. Endowments are generally not something that your average mortal can cook up in his basement or find lying around, the most notable exceptions being Relics (AKD has a huge supply of Relics; but they don't hold a monopoly on them) and Prayer (a member of the Long Night, likewise, is merely more likely than your typical religiously devout individual to truly believe in the power of prayer, and that's merely because he's more likely to have his faith tested on a regular basis: that which doesn't break you makes you stronger). That all goes doubly so for Supernatural Endowments.

                        So in principle, anyone could have an Endowment, of any type; but in practice, you'll rarely find Physical, Mental,or Social Endowments outside the Compacts, and you'll rarely find Supernatural Endowments outside the Conspiracies.


                        Note also that Thaumaturge Merits could be thought of as Supernatural “Endowments” provided by “Compacts” (i.e., the various Thaumaturge Traditions, which are arguably as organized as the Cainite Heresy). And if it were me, I'd draw parallels between Malleus Maleficatorum (whose Benedictions are not unlike Theban Sorcery, in concept if not implementation) and the Sons of Phobos.

                        Heck, I'd love to get a “Cancer Cells” supplement that focuses on Hunter as a true crossover game, with a dual focus on how hunters would interact with the actual powers of the other gamelines, and on hunter cells that, for various reasons, choose to work with the Shadow Folk instead of working against them.


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                        • #13
                          You know what would be cool? If Endowments weren't even restricted to Hunters!

                          ...

                          No, wait, hear me out.

                          Basically, Endowments would be Merits of the appropriate type with hefty drawbacks. Like using Elixir would poison a normal person, Castigations would ravage your soul, all that good stuff. What Compacts/Conspiracies do is make the Endowments safer, as well as making it easier/more convenient for you to pick up new powers.

                          Add onto that the idea that some Conspiracies see certain Endowments as their property. If you use Castigations, you're gonna be visited by members of the Lucifuge who want you to join (or else). And if you do join, you might actually get a power boost for some of your Castigations, since you're actually using them correctly now.


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                          • #14
                            That does kind of make some sense. If you wanted to decouple Castigations from demonic heritage, you could always say that it was possible to use them (with major drawbacks) by making deals with demons (which would be helpful to Hunter players who want to make demonologist characters without having to buy Inferno).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Geckopirateship View Post
                              (which would be helpful to Hunter players who want to make demonologist characters without having to buy Inferno).
                              Couldn't you just use the ephemeral rules?

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