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Empyreans Weakness

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  • Empyreans Weakness

    Hello!

    A simple question: a Possessed Character (from Inferno Handbook) suffers Aggravated damage with blessed itens and sacred places.
    In the same book, when talks about Empyreans (possessed by an angel), what is his weakness? Blessed itens too or desecrated?
    I thought that Blessed attack could harm an angel in the same way, similar to Supernatural Series where the angels have that "angel-killer blade". Maybe a blessed item could be the God-Machine method to kill his own creation. Still, is strange angels being harmed by "holy water" or consagrated grounds.
    What do you think?

  • #2
    Hello! Long-time lurker writing his first post here.

    Anyways, I'm pretty sure that the 'angels' described in Inferno are not those of the God-Machine. After all, the Possessed are not possessed by the Unchained either. Rather, they seem to be embodiments of Virtue and thus counterparts to the Vice-embodying demons in the same book.

    That said, maybe their bane could be something that challenges or undermines the Virtue they represent. An Empyrean of Hope could be burned by a noose used by someone who committed suicide after losing all he had. An Empyrean of Love could be maimed by a knife used by a victim of domestic abuse who snapped and killed their spouse, and so on.


    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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    • #3
      Seconding 21C Hermit, and also adding that "desecrated" objects and places already have some basis in the CofD. Look at Wounds (and things that might result in them), objects instrumental in terrible deeds and Integrity loss, and other things that represent corruption or the triumph of Vice over Virtue.


      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
        Hello! Long-time lurker writing his first post here.

        Anyways, I'm pretty sure that the 'angels' described in Inferno are not those of the God-Machine. After all, the Possessed are not possessed by the Unchained either. Rather, they seem to be embodiments of Virtue and thus counterparts to the Vice-embodying demons in the same book.

        That said, maybe their bane could be something that challenges or undermines the Virtue they represent. An Empyrean of Hope could be burned by a noose used by someone who committed suicide after losing all he had. An Empyrean of Love could be maimed by a knife used by a victim of domestic abuse who snapped and killed their spouse, and so on.
        I know that the Empyreans isn't the God-Machine Unchained (i guess the Inferno handbook was written before God Machine and Demons the Descent, right?)

        But for now, i don't want to add the Demons, The Descent in my campaign. We are based in God Machine rulebook and some Hunter, The Vigil. Other things is the generic handbooks, like Inferno, Book of Spirits. So, withou Unchained in campaing, I want to use the Empyreans like humans possessed by real angels, that uses them like Cover, similar to Demons, the Descent.
        Do you think that would lhave some problem with this?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by winchester View Post
          I know that the Empyreans isn't the God-Machine Unchained (i guess the Inferno handbook was written before God Machine and Demons the Descent, right?)


          Yes, but the God Machine has (supposedly) had angels all the way to the Pain Prophet story in the first edition rulesbook.


          Plus, rules wise, possessed (inferno wise) are the result of a different numina in first edition, which would probably be a manifestation in 2d edition.

          Demons, in Inferno, include (former) spirits, goetia (astral), and even former ghosts, so why would individual empyreans being possessed by different types of entities that just so happen to have the same numina/manifestation be a problem? Mechanically it makes no difference, storywise, it's a distinction that doesn't make a difference, and it's a difference that I imagine the vast majority of hunters probably wouldn't know about anyway.

          Plus Inferno talks about different types of angels, including the quashmallim of Promethean. An empyrean possessed by a god-machine angel seems less weird to me than a quashmallim possessed empyrean, the principle's angels are less likely to go for a religious theme than the god-machine's.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by StSword View Post

            Yes, but the God Machine has (supposedly) had angels all the way to the Pain Prophet story in the first edition rulesbook. [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

            Plus, rules wise, possessed (inferno wise) are the result of a different numina in first edition, which would probably be a manifestation in 2d edition.

            Demons, in Inferno, include (former) spirits, goetia (astral), and even former ghosts, so why would individual empyreans being possessed by different types of entities that just so happen to have the same numina/manifestation be a problem? Mechanically it makes no difference, storywise, it's a distinction that doesn't make a difference, and it's a difference that I imagine the vast majority of hunters probably wouldn't know about anyway.

            Plus Inferno talks about different types of angels, including the quashmallim of Promethean. An empyrean possessed by a god-machine angel seems less weird to me than a quashmallim possessed empyrean, the principle's angels are less likely to go for a religious theme than the god-machine's.
            Yep. My intention is really to be mysterious to the Hunters players. One of them want to become a Empyrean. I already told him that even possessed by this kind of entity will be an alien for him. Maybe he will never know about its real intention.
            My question about the bane reflect in this with a player character: if a Possessed hás the blessed itens as Bane, the Empyereans should have something similar, for balance.

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            • #7
              Hmm, yes, getting back to the original point of this thread- Have you considered using cursed items as their weakness?

              They already exist in setting, and it seems appropriate to me that objects of protection and purification are a possessed's weakness, but items of misfortune, chaos, and death are the empyrean's weakness.

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              • #8
                Another question: there is a Merit in Reliquary to start with a Relic. Is there something similar to start with a blessed item? I know that the cursed one in Book of Spirits already hás the Merit. I just didn't find about Blessed one (except that ability from Malleus to turn normal itens in blessed).

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