[2E] Possessing by Shadow Name Persona

[wyrdhamster]

Promethea comics give me cool idea for characters ‘usablity’ – that mages can invoke their Shadow Name Persona as some ephemeral being possessing them ( probably Goetia from Astral ). What could be benefits and dangers of doing things like that? What kind of Influences can we talk about? What would be spells needed for doing things like that? Let the discussion begins!

[21C Hermit]

A conjunctional spell of Prime + Spirit or Mind, perhaps? Or maybe an Add Prime option to the Possession spell. It seems that spells in 2e prefer "Optionally add Arcanum to a stand-alone spell" to "Require multiple Arcana from the beginning" approach in multi-Arcana spells.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if one's Shadow Name has a tangible presence within the Oneiros. It's a huge part of their psyche, after all. But considering how summoning Goetia from the Oneiros work, summoning one would mean that you'd effectively remove your own Shadow Name during the manifestation. Which would probably remove your access to the Nimbus as well, and maybe even your Praxes, since they are all covered under "Your Magical Persona".

As for the Goetia itself, I assume it would be Resonant with and have Influence over the mage's Nimbus, and have custom Numina replicating the mage's Praxes.

[WHW]

Crackpot Theory:
Some of the Supernal Beings are literally this - Shadow Names that literally came to life, symbols that became so clear they crystalized into new lifeform.

[21C Hermit]

Crackpot Theory:
Some of the Supernal Beings are literally this - Shadow Names that literally came to life, symbols that became so clear they crystalized into new lifeform.

Isn't that how Ascension works?

[Mrmdubois]

Not necessarily.

[General Tacticus]

Crackpot Theory:
Some of the Supernal Beings are literally this - Shadow Names that literally came to life, symbols that became so clear they crystalized into new lifeform.

That's not a crackpot theory, that's basically canon:

Kinda.

The Arthurian World did exist (in some form, it was probably closer to earlier Dark Ages, Arthur laughing as he wrestles bears and smites men versions than after it got lancelotted and romantic fantasied) sometime in post-Roman Britain. It was the pet project of a welsh Silver Ladder Acanthus (and either the founder of or an early member of the Walkers in Mists Legacy) with the Shadow Name of Myrddin (or, in English, Merlin). He achieved archmastery, and his Noumenon, the great act of magic that made him Ascend, was to manipulate Fate to great and then doom the society he built, marking the Symbolism of Arcadia forever. Among the side effects was turning the astral anthropomorphism of Fate into Mordred.

Then the Arcadian Exarchs deleted the whole thing from the timeline, and history became as we know it. Myrddin, safely Ascended as the very symbol of a cunning bastard, gave no shits.

Tldr - it is a longstanding setting element of Mage, since Tome of the Watchtowers nearly ten years ago, that Merlin was a real mage, that the crystal cave was what he *wanted* (his ascension) and the fall of Camelot was entirely deliberate on his part. It predates Changeling as a gameline.

Anyway, WRT the OP - I agree with Hermit that someone's Shadow Name would have a presence in their Oneiros, and someone whose Shadow Name persona was strong enough to actually have the Merit would be particularly strong, potentially strong enough to make for a useful Goetia. You could have it manifest as an independent Goetia with Goetic Summons and +1 Reach; having it pilot your body for a bit without separating it from your mind is not quite the same, but it's similar enough that I'd use that spell as a base.

Its powers could be basically anything, depending on what the shadow persona is. The manifested Shadow Name of a devoutly-religious Theurge dedicated to spreading truth and enlightenment would be quite different from that of a manipulative-trickster Acanthus or Mastigos named for Loki or Anansi or Coyote, which in turn would be different from that of a primal-ecstasy Thyrsus. I imagine that its Rank would depend on the power of the Mage in question and their dots in Shadow Name (if any), but I'm not sure what the best scale would be. Are there rules or official guidelines anywhere for the power level of personal Goetia?

The benefits and dangers of doing something like that are basically the same thing, I think - this would be a being entirely dedicated to living out the mage's shadow persona, unfettered by other concerns. So it would be impervious to doubt or to the temptations of everyday life (except insofar as those things were part of the shadow persona in the first place) - but on the other hand, it would be impervious to doubt and to the needs of everyday life. If you named yourself Javert and built a shadow persona about finding and punishing the guilty no matter what, and gave it control of your body... best hope no-one you care about turns out to be guilty of any transgression, eh?

[Axelgear]

The concept of a Shadow Name goetia feels... Strange to me. Not at first because it makes a kind of intuitive sense - if your fears and lusts have goetia, why not this part of you? - but then it came upon me that your Shadow Name isn't a "part" of you in the same way those things are; it's grander and more encompassing. Your Shadow Name wouldn't spawn a single goetic entity; it'd spawn whole sections of your Oneiros. When a Mage delves into the Astral, more often than not, their Shadow Name defines their appearance.

Your Shadow Name isn't a piece of you any more than your normal name is; it IS you. It is your symbol of who you really are. It's not a game of pretend; it is the symbol that you have chosen to weave into the core of your very being.

You might summon goetia representing specific ideas within your Shadow Name - if you took the name Odin, you might conjure a lust for knowledge, cunning, love of monocles... - but the whole thing can't be summoned because the whole thing is you.

[Juhn]

If you consider your Shadow Name to be a distinct adopted persona, separate from the "normal" you, then it could ostensibly have a representative goetia.

I suppose it depends on whether the Mage in question refers to himself as in his head is Bruce or as Batman.

In the games I've played in, the Shadow Name tends to be reflected heavily in the Daimon, due to the whole "who I desire to be" aspect of the Daimon.

[Axelgear]

I feel like that concept comes from thinking about the Shadow Name the wrong way. Your Shadow Name is not this alter ego you develop; it's not some second identity equal or subservient to the first. Awakening is categorically the demise of your Sleeping self (as any Moros will attest). A developed Shadow Name is more representative of you than your birth name. The piece of you that does magic is your soul, and it is so distinct from your old self as to weaken the sympathy between the two.

Unless your Shadow Name is nothing more than an occult pseudonym, it is more you than any other name you answer to.

[wyrdhamster]

Unless your Shadow Name is nothing more than an occult pseudonym, it is more you than any other name you answer to.

And you can change it few times in life, to completely different beings. I think that you are here exaggerating 'Shadow Names likes to fulfill themselves' thing. Shadow Name can be your ( temporary ) Destiny's goal, but are not your 'true reality self'. You too much listen to Silver Ladder mambo-jambo about Atlantis.

[Axelgear]

Changing a Shadow Name is representative of a significant life event. It isn't done casually. When you change your Shadow Name, you're saying that you have changed.

[wyrdhamster]

Changing a Shadow Name is representative of a significant life event. It isn't done casually. When you change your Shadow Name, you're saying that you have changed.

But you still can change Shadow Name. If Name was your 'true reality self', as you are describing it, it would not be possible to change once chosen Shadow Name. It's pseudonym and occult tool, not 'true reality about yourself' ( even if Silver Ladder says other thing on that ).

[Tessie]

But you still can change Shadow Name. If Name was your 'true reality self', as you are describing it, it would not be possible to change once chosen Shadow Name. It's pseudonym and occult tool, not 'true reality about yourself' ( even if Silver Ladder says other thing on that ).

The Shadow Name is a magical representation of the Mage's identity after the Awakening. If the Mage goes through another life changing event (or just naturally developed) then a new Shadow Name would be more representative. So changing a Shadow Name works despite being so closely tied to the soul. So nothing Axelgear said is a contradiction.

[Axelgear]

What Tessie said.

[Moinen]

I don't know how much it have changed from 1E but I've recently read Mage Noir which talks about Shadow Names and identities. Mages use it as a nickname (which still is your Magical Self). For example you can have a name for your sentinel job, for working in your magical shop and for your archeomancing hobby when you don't want them to mix up.