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Aimed Spells vs. Sensory spells

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  • Aimed Spells vs. Sensory spells

    The aimed spell rules leaves me wanting. Looking at the spell casting section I do not see why anyone would ever cast an aimed spell instead of a sensory spell. What are the benefits to casting a spell as an Aimed Spell?

    Questions:
    #1) Can you cast an Aimed Spell at a distance without spending a reach? The aimed spell rules start that they fire their spell at their subject instead of touching them when casting at standard range. Then it goes on to say an Aimed spell’s short range is Gnosis x 10, medium is Gnosis x 20, and long is Gnosis x 40. What it doesn't say is if you need a reach to get that range?

    #2) I am totally lost as to what this means "Aimed spell rolls happen after spellcasting rolls and Paradox roll results have been determined, but are reflexive - they happen on the same turn as the spellcasting roll."

    #3) Aimed spells can still be withstood correct? I do not see it mentioned either way so I presume that they still have their withstand rating.

    #4) It mentions that an Aimed spell streaks across the field to strike its target. Is it visible to anyone without Active Mage Sight? If yes does it trigger the Nimbus Tilt?

    #5) it states that you need to roll Gnosis + (highest of Athletics or Firearms) - subject’s Defense. If surprised does the character get his defense? Would their Peripheral Mage Sight give them enough warning to negate surprise?

    #6) Can any spell be cast using the Aimed Spell rules or is it just damage spells.

    #7) the Merit Fast Spells states that you spell has the speed of a bullet removing the ability to use defense against it, unless you has a supernatural means to allow it. Are you still able to use your athletics to cast the spell or is it firearms one at this point.

  • #2
    An Aimed Spell is a spell that can hit a distant target by throwing it at a target. You don't pay Reach for distances. Unlike a Sensory Range Spell it doesn't automatically hit so after you cast it you have to make a reflexive action roll to throw the spell at your target, that roll is always Gnosis+Athletics/Firearms - Defense unless you have Fast Spells in which case whether or not you worry about Defense is determined by whether or not the target has a supernatural power that allows them to retain defense. Aimed spell are indeed Withstood. Any spell can be an Aimed Spell.

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    • #3
      1) Yes, at that is the point of using aimed spells over sensory range spells in the first place. No, you don't need any more Reach to get that range - aiming a spell means that you cast a spell at touch range, and then sorta conjure a magic bolt you can shoot like an arrow, hence the distance for ranged weapons..

      2) The spellcasting roll is the standard Gnosis + Arcanum roll. The aiming roll is Gnosis + Athletics, penalized by Defense. The two are separate rolls, ie. you roll twice. However, because the former is an instant action and the latter is a reflexive one, they happen on the same turn. I'm not sure if I can help you further than this.

      I do not recall the aiming dice pool being Gnosis + higher of Athletics or Firearms, though. See #7 for more of my thoughts on this.

      3) Yep, still Withstood.

      4) No, I wouldn't go that far. There's nothing special about throwing bolts of magic that would override one of the basic laws of Supernal magic.

      5) I do not recall the rules for surprise, but I believe that surprise attacks usually negate the victim's Defense. Aimed spells follow the same rule. Watch out for defensive powers that do grant Defense even against surprise attacks, though. As for Peripheral Mage Sight, I don't think the spellcasting act itself counts as a supernatural action. Which means that it wouldn't trigger Peripheral MS. Others will probably know better about this, though.

      6) Yep. Feel free to heal your friends, curse your enemies with maladies, and cause annoying machines to malfuction - all by just pointing a finger at them.

      7) Without a clear rule to draw the RAW from, I'd say that normally aimed spells roll Gnosis + Athletics - victim's Defense, just like using a thrown weapon except substituting Gnosis for Dexterity. Then the Fast Spells Merit allows you to roll Gnosis + Firerarms, ignoring the victim's Defense, just like using a firearms.


      MtAw Homebrew:
      Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
      New 2E Legacies, expanded

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
        An Aimed Spell is a spell that can hit a distant target by throwing it at a target. You don't pay Reach for distances. Unlike a Sensory Range Spell it doesn't automatically hit so after you cast it you have to make a reflexive action roll to throw the spell at your target, that roll is always Gnosis+Athletics/Firearms - Defense unless you have Fast Spells in which case whether or not you worry about Defense is determined by whether or not the target has a supernatural power that allows them to retain defense. Aimed spell are indeed Withstood. Any spell can be an Aimed Spell.
        Thanks for the information. as always very helpful.


        Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
        1) Yes, at that is the point of using aimed spells over sensory range spells in the first place. No, you don't need any more Reach to get that range - aiming a spell means that you cast a spell at touch range, and then sorta conjure a magic bolt you can shoot like an arrow, hence the distance for ranged weapons..

        2) The spellcasting roll is the standard Gnosis + Arcanum roll. The aiming roll is Gnosis + Athletics, penalized by Defense. The two are separate rolls, ie. you roll twice. However, because the former is an instant action and the latter is a reflexive one, they happen on the same turn. I'm not sure if I can help you further than this.

        I do not recall the aiming dice pool being Gnosis + higher of Athletics or Firearms, though. See #7 for more of my thoughts on this.

        3) Yep, still Withstood.

        4) No, I wouldn't go that far. There's nothing special about throwing bolts of magic that would override one of the basic laws of Supernal magic.

        5) I do not recall the rules for surprise, but I believe that surprise attacks usually negate the victim's Defense. Aimed spells follow the same rule. Watch out for defensive powers that do grant Defense even against surprise attacks, though. As for Peripheral Mage Sight, I don't think the spellcasting act itself counts as a supernatural action. Which means that it wouldn't trigger Peripheral MS. Others will probably know better about this, though.

        6) Yep. Feel free to heal your friends, curse your enemies with maladies, and cause annoying machines to malfuction - all by just pointing a finger at them.

        7) Without a clear rule to draw the RAW from, I'd say that normally aimed spells roll Gnosis + Athletics - victim's Defense, just like using a thrown weapon except substituting Gnosis for Dexterity. Then the Fast Spells Merit allows you to roll Gnosis + Firerarms, ignoring the victim's Defense, just like using a firearms.
        #1) Ok then no reach to get range. That is good.

        #2) The statement is on page 115 of the Mage the Awakening 2e book under the Aimed Spells.

        #3) I thought so.

        #4) Good, don't want those pesky sleepers to get in the way of a good aimed spell.

        #5) I don't know, Peripheral Mage Sight, It does say that it detects only active supernatural effects. So you are probably correct that the casting itself doesn't trigger the Peripheral Mage Sight only the effects after casting.

        #6) Cool.

        #7) I am not sure.

        Comment


        • #5
          Peripheral Mage Sight picking up an aimed spell soaring to you might be a justification why mages get to apply Defense on what are otherwise invisible attacks.

          #7 falls under homebrew it seems - pick it apart at your own leisure


          MtAw Homebrew:
          Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
          New 2E Legacies, expanded

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          • #6
            They are only invisible if they are not using Active Mage Sight.

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            • #7
              Casting a spell is activating a supernatural power and would ping PMS, unless it's a Veiling spell which is the exception.

              By the way since Aimed Spells have a chance of missing it means they also have a chance of effecting an unintended applicable target. I think.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                Casting a spell is activating a supernatural power and would ping PMS, unless it's a Veiling spell which is the exception.

                By the way since Aimed Spells have a chance of missing it means they also have a chance of effecting an unintended applicable target. I think.
                So if it triggers PMS does that negate a surprise attack?

                And I am counting on them hitting other stuff if they miss.

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                • #9
                  I's say no, you can hear someone shoot a nerf dart but that doesn't mean you can't still be surprised by it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                    Casting a spell is activating a supernatural power and would ping PMS, unless it's a Veiling spell which is the exception.
                    Huh, didn't know that. Strange.


                    MtAw Homebrew:
                    Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                    New 2E Legacies, expanded

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes I am learning alot from this guy, I appreciate it.

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                      • #12
                        I'd say PMS at best would give you +1 to Wits+Composure to react to a surprise attack, but only in certain situations, like, the guy you were arguing with suddenly points and shoots a fireball at you. In a proper ambush, by the time you sense the spell it would be too late.

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                        • #13
                          Peripheral Mage Sight isn't spider sense. You just know something happened.
                          In the case of an attack going your way... You won't react in time to count as not surprised. Ponder on it the next round


                          Check my Exalted homebrew!

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                          • #14
                            I'm curious to know what the standard visual effect for a spell that isn't immediately obvious should be. An aimed fireball is pretty obvious - what about something like Shapeshift to forcibly transform someone?

                            I guess that's a matter for creativity and praxis.


                            We don't allow mages to cast spells, since this is the most unbalancing rule of all.

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                            • #15
                              Wait, doesn't a thrown spell need to be visible to explain why people get their defense against it?

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