Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mystery: Fae Warlocks of Arcadia! [Crossover Template Brainstorming]

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    What happens to the dreamer when his Oneiros is subverted by the Guildsman?

    Is there a specific quality needed for a Guildsman to use people as a conduct between the Brim and the outside world, other than they have to be a dreaming Sleepwalker?

    What happens to a Guildsman's own Oneiros and soul? Held in thrall by the Bearer?
    Speaking of which, do Guildsmen have a 'real' body back at the Brim, or is that pseudo-ephemeral body entirely their own now?

    Can the Guildsman do anything else with their Essence, besides hording it as sustenance and using it in some Spirit spells (which the Solstice are poor at)?

    Can the Guildsman perceive or otherwise interact with Wyrd phenomena, especially changelings, Glamour, and the Hedge?

    How would the Guildsmen's oneiromancy differ from just casting Dream Reaching, or some other creatively crafted thaumaturgy?
    Maybe you could expand on the Mind-phase Twilight that hardly gets covered, linking it with or even replacing the ability to shift into Mind Twilight you already wrote above.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
      What happens to the dreamer when his Oneiros is subverted by the Guildsman?
      Comatose and generally held in some secluded location — tentative mechanics for the Guildsmen include the ability to spend a Mana, roll Wits + Composure, and appear at the side of their host in a pared-down allusion to archmages returning to the Road and ephemeral beings using Discorporation.

      Is there a specific quality needed for a Guildsman to use people as a conduct between the Brim and the outside world, other than they have to be a dreaming Sleepwalker?
      Still sorting that one out, though tentatives include that the Guild produces the necessary quality as payment for some Supernal bargains and/or as a consequence of the Long-Term Nimbus's borrowed sympathies.

      What happens to a Guildsman's own Oneiros and soul? Held in thrall by the Bearer?
      Functionally acting as their body like 1e's description of how Morpheans work — it's what managed to pull free of the Brim.
      Speaking of which, do Guildsmen have a 'real' body back at the Brim, or is that pseudo-ephemeral body entirely their own now?
      Difficult to say — the Brim's interface with reality is mostly through the Astral in this iteration, though appropriate Verges might serve as a nice dangerous rarity that powerful Guildsmen might contrive to exploit in the name of securing their hosts against disturbance.

      I do wonder if it might be thematically suitable to introduce a King In The Mountain/Regent Vizier sort of thematic into the relation between host and Guildsman, or if that risks dragging this thing further afield.

      Can the Guildsman do anything else with their Essence, besides hording it as sustenance and using it in some Spirit spells (which the Solstice are poor at)?
      Biggest one is that the current iteration has Mage Armor replaced as an Attainment with Mantle, which lets you take an Influence within the thematic bounds of each Arcanum equal to your dots in that Arcanum and use it to mess with Resonance and accomplish Paradox-free effects. (Mantle Influences can be changed or refined like Virtues and Vices whenever you raise Gnosis or create a soul stone.)

      Can the Guildsman perceive or otherwise interact with Wyrd phenomena, especially changelings, Glamour, and the Hedge?
      To a degree not yet fully determined — "The Brim contains Irises into the Hedge" was on the table way back at the beginning of developing this idea.

      How would the Guildsmen's oneiromancy differ from just casting Dream Reaching, or some other creatively crafted thaumaturgy?
      Presently unconsidered, beyond a vague supposition that the Guildsman would involve bodily entry — wondering if I should take cues from Changeling 2e's treatment of physical dreaming and extend that to affect other projection-based spellwork.

      Might be good to tie this into the Nimbus and/or travel between Oneiroi and/or how the host-qualifier is spread?

      Maybe you could expand on the Mind-phase Twilight that hardly gets covered, linking it with or even replacing the ability to shift into Mind Twilight you already wrote above.
      Unfortunately, all that comes to mind right now is Mind-modded Ghostwall and Forces/Life variants thereof. Did you have anything particular in mind?


      Resident Sanguinary Analyst
      Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

      Comment


      • #18
        Did you have anything particular in mind?
        I was thinking of something that is to Mind-Twilight as Neter-Khertet is to Death-Twilight. A gallery of Astral dreams laid upon the material world, much like the mausoleum of Irem laid upon the material world, both concealed from even mages by the quality of existing in a unique frequency of Twilight that most mages don't peek into because they assume their Arcana shows them all there is to be seen.

        I remember reading the Astral stuff back in 1e. They had esoterics, entities of subconscious thought that are not quite Goetia in 2e terms due to not existing in the Astral. They also had dream-phases prior to entering the Oneiros proper (don't remember the name), and had somthing like "dream actors" populate that space. These critters aren't exactly Goetia, but they could serve as the natural inhabitants of this dreamscape similar to the Amkhata.

        This also fits within the "corporeal oneiromancy" thing changelings and the Guildsmen have - the latter can just shift their whole bodies/simulacra/projections/whatever-that-they-are into the Twilight realm.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
          I was thinking of something that is to Mind-Twilight as Neter-Khertet is to Death-Twilight. A gallery of Astral dreams laid upon the material world, much like the mausoleum of Irem laid upon the material world, both concealed from even mages by the quality of existing in a unique frequency of Twilight that most mages don't peek into because they assume their Arcana shows them all there is to be seen.

          I remember reading the Astral stuff back in 1e. They had esoterics, entities of subconscious thought that are not quite Goetia in 2e terms due to not existing in the Astral. They also had dream-phases prior to entering the Oneiros proper (don't remember the name), and had somthing like "dream actors" populate that space. These critters aren't exactly Goetia, but they could serve as the natural inhabitants of this dreamscape similar to the Amkhata.

          This also fits within the "corporeal oneiromancy" thing changelings and the Guildsmen have - the latter can just shift their whole bodies/simulacra/projections/whatever-that-they-are into the Twilight realm.
          I feel like adding an entire new cosmological aspect runs the risk of making the splat a bit crowded, particularly when part of the purpose of iterating out of the Brim was to keep the primary metaphysics fairly simple.

          Suppose instead that entering someone's dreams brings a goetia (one of the Guildsman's, one of the host's, one of the subject's, or something from the deeper layers?) into the material world and Fetters them to the subject?


          Some other notes, shifts, and important questions, muddled together:
          • Trying to sort out whether the downshift to goetic ephemera happens in every no-Essence state or only when the Guildsman lacks a host; in either case, completely removing the ability to recover Willpower is probably excessive/redundant for a state that already mimics soul loss, so now the Psychic Projection form just loses the ability to spend Experiences.
          • A Guildsman's Shadow Name dots tentatively serve as something largely mechanically similar to the Prelacy Merit relating to their House. Not sure whether to have the Crown Attainment be uniform or vary by House.
          • Contemplating whether to bump up the Essence requirement to reestablishing materiality with a new host to something higher/different than the Guildsman's Shadow Name dots and/or reduce/change the extra benefit of sleeping in proximity to an appropriately Opened Resonant Condition.
          • Not sure whether to have the sympathy-scrambling effects of the Shadow Name Merit interact with the host's borrowed sympathies or not. A straight flip between the two obviates some of the point of the effect, but it does incentivize Guildsmen to stay in their Shadow Name if it keeps their host from being discovered as easily. There's also the question of how such a relation works while the Guildsman is inside the host's Oneiros. I'm angling to have this evoke the pseudo-Anonymity effect of Changeling 2e's Hollows; any thoughts?
          • Thinking about changing around the Rote Skills for Houses and the base template in general; leaning toward a choice of three from a set of four, half of which are determined by House, and joining a Legacy lets you replace one with a different Skill if you so choose. Tentatively it's Larceny and Investigation for everyone, then Animal Ken and Expression for Spring, Athletics and Weaponry for Summer, Academics and Occult for Autumn, Stealth and Crafts for Winter, and Drive and Subterfuge for Solstice.
          • Considering whether to have Solstice's unhosted state have a different consequence than the rest of the Houses and allow particularly desperate Guildsmen to flip from Solstice to Seasonal in a fashion that liquidates a goodly chunk of their magical resources in exchange for something yet to be determined.
          • Trying to figure out whether to have Bedlam and the Nimbus Tilt mesh in any way.


          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

          Comment


          • #20
            A thought occurred that presents the possibility of a third iteration: Changing the Guildsmen's "root" access vector from [a dream-bound Sleepwalker] to [a simulacrum of the Guildsman with one or more Sleepwalkers' souls connected to it in a fashion that binds them into a dreaming state, possibly through the incorporation of sympathetic Yantras].

            So a v3 Guildsman's most consistent route into the Astral is essentially an effigy of themselves, possibly doubling as some other place of power. Seem viable?


            Resident Sanguinary Analyst
            Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
              A thought occurred that presents the possibility of a third iteration: Changing the Guildsmen's "root" access vector from [a dream-bound Sleepwalker] to [a simulacrum of the Guildsman with one or more Sleepwalkers' souls connected to it in a fashion that binds them into a dreaming state, possibly through the incorporation of sympathetic Yantras].
              I have trouble parsing how the two are different. In fact, all this time I thought v3 was how it worked!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                I feel like adding an entire new cosmological aspect runs the risk of making the splat a bit crowded, particularly when part of the purpose of iterating out of the Brim was to keep the primary metaphysics fairly simple.
                Fair enough.

                Suppose instead that entering someone's dreams brings a goetia (one of the Guildsman's, one of the host's, one of the subject's, or something from the deeper layers?) into the material world and Fetters them to the subject?
                Ooh, that sounds better. I love the idea of Guildsman ejecting an Oneiric Goetia out of the people they're riding, and dreamwalking in.

                Some other notes, shifts, and important questions, muddled together:
                • Trying to sort out whether the downshift to goetic ephemera happens in every no-Essence state or only when the Guildsman lacks a host; in either case, completely removing the ability to recover Willpower is probably excessive/redundant for a state that already mimics soul loss, so now the Psychic Projection form just loses the ability to spend Experiences.
                I suggest whatever is simpler and uses less systems. I'd just go with "Zero Essence gives you pseudo-Soulless" only.

                • A Guildsman's Shadow Name dots tentatively serve as something largely mechanically similar to the Prelacy Merit relating to their House. Not sure whether to have the Crown Attainment be uniform or vary by House.
                How about having the Crowns be replicating Bedlam, with the House/Court's associated emotions?

                • Thinking about changing around the Rote Skills for Houses and the base template in general; leaning toward a choice of three from a set of four, half of which are determined by House, and joining a Legacy lets you replace one with a different Skill if you so choose. Tentatively it's Larceny and Investigation for everyone, then Animal Ken and Expression for Spring, Athletics and Weaponry for Summer, Academics and Occult for Autumn, Stealth and Crafts for Winter, and Drive and Subterfuge for Solstice.
                Nice, but I'm curious - why Drive and Subterfuge for Solstice? The two together gives the image of a conman who moves around a lot. Was it intentional?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  I have trouble parsing how the two are different. In fact, all this time I thought v3 was how it worked!
                  V2 was "your core Astral entry-point is a whole dreaming person, who you will probably want to sequester in a remote location and/or circumvent the physical needs of where viable through personal spellcraft or networking."

                  V3 is "your core Astral entry-point is a magical dummy of you-the-Guildsman, which holds the dream-space(s) of one or more Sleepwalkers through mystical connections without your needing to personally account for the logistics of human storage (though there are obvious benefits to doing so anyway)."

                  It's the difference between a meditating hermit and a Sarira, though on a less high-dramatic level. It also helps sidestep the question of what qualifies a Sleepwalker for connection to the Brim somewhat by making the limiting factor instead be the creation and/or destruction of the effigy.

                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  How about having the Crowns be replicating Bedlam, with the House/Court's associated emotions?
                  The emotions are currently allocated to a free Mantle Influence equal to the Guildsman's highest Arcanum, to keep from requiring Mind Mantle be used for that slot.

                  Part of me wants to take a cue from Hollow and Bolthole and have the Crown give you an pool of points to allocate between bonuses for the area around your fetch-nexus; I keep wondering how far from the "body" I ought to require a Guildsman to be to use it as a gate to the Astral between "stepping on your own grave/entering a burial mound" and "resting at the foot of an otherworldly statue" and that kind of extended reach might make for a good trick for senior Guildsmen, particularly if it extends the range of the "appear at your host's side" power in thematic ways.

                  Nice, but I'm curious - why Drive and Subterfuge for Solstice? The two together gives the image of a conman who moves around a lot. Was it intentional?
                  Somewhat; the House of the Solstice takes a couple nods from the "Solstice Court" of Changeling 1e, which is an entitlement full of Courtless changelings who've managed to replicate the emotional resonance effects of the Seasonal Courts with Desperation. Given I'm trying to carry forward the general trend of being less established, I figure the Skills related to horseback riding and hiding your emotions serve decently for the House made up of Guildsmen who got out without a proper encounter with the god of the Brim.

                  V3 does bring up the question of whether to shuffle Crafts into the core pair, and if so, whether to just trade Winter Investigation or go for a more comprehensive rearrangement.


                  Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                  Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Been a couple months and this has been fairly low-priority back-burnering. Thinking over further tweaks to make the thing more elegant, a couple things are tentatively sitting here on my list of changes for V4:

                    • Replace individual simulacra with a single statue or other feature per "freehold" that allows access to the Brim.
                    • Wondering whether to switch the Subtle Arcanum of the Path to Spirit just on the basis of a stronger dependence on Essence and Resonance.
                    • By a similar token, in the pursuit of a more structurally-agnostic setup, wondering whether to have the "Solstice House" nod to the etymological roots of "warlock" and change the sub-Path's Arcana affinities to Spirit-Inferior/Mind-Ruling.
                    • Speaking of tokens — replace host-acquisition with semi-materialistic bargains built on the Path Tools and/or ease out of the mercury/headgear space to enable a more limited version of oneiromancy without needing Mind while steering back towards the original intended resonance with the Wizened?

                    I'll probably make a new thread once I've got a better handle on this, since it's potentially a pretty extensive re-iteration, but for now, thoughts or questions?


                    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X