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Forces Flight slower that running?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ffanxii4ever View Post

    Huh. Well I'll be damned. That's a really good point. As a GM, I'd say that you'd some degree of control, but it'd be freaking hard as your "increments" of Speed would be larger. Valid point though!
    Actually, on reading Velocity Control again (the "increments" idea didn't sit well with me) turns out there's an even bigger problem.
    From my (new) reading of Velocity Control, what with the car and projectile examples, it's a spell without a Duration. i.e. a one-time speed bost, as if the target were pushed by force to increase their speed.

    After the spell is cast, physics works normally with air resistance and friction and all that jazz and the target decelerates at a certain pace, depending on circumstances (including, if desired, deceleration from the Levitation or Flight spell)

    A month's duration of Velocity Control would make it redo the speed boost in ritual casting time intervals, a horrible, horrible curse.


    Originally posted by ffanxii4ever View Post

    Life to boost your flight speed from a Forces spell? That doesn't sound quite right...
    I had an idea there of Levitation using target's Speed as a part of it's text, and for some reason I didn't write that in. My bad.

    All things considered, go with:

    Flight (Forces••••)
    Practice: Patterning
    Primary Factor: Duration
    Withstand: Stamina
    Suggested Rote Skills: Athletics, Science, Survival
    The subject flies, fluid and free. She instinctively
    creates the telekinetic force as she maneuvers in midair, granting
    her incredible speed and maneuverability. The subject gains
    an air Speed equal to the mage’s Gnosis + the spell’s Potency + its Speed.
    While airborne she can make a Dexterity + Athletics roll to avoid
    obstacles, gains her normal Defense against attacks, and can fly
    without exhausting herself as she would by running.


    And use Velocity Control to temporarily multiply speed for a sort of overland-flight kind of thing.

    Or just add the +Speed thing to Levitation's text as a homerule thing. They are example spells, anyone with the Gnosis and Forces has the mystic knowledge to know this can be done and how to do it. If you feel it too good with the Speed boost, make it another Reach option.

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    • #17
      Velocity Control to increase subjects velocity combined with Gravity Control to make them "fall" towards nearest wall sounds like a neat combo.

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      • #18
        if you Shield against friction then you'd maintain any level of speed acquired after shooting yourself forward with Velocity Control. You could even cast Velocity Control again and again to augment your already increased speed since the spell wouldn't be stacking with itself but its results.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Aeryes View Post
          From my (new) reading of Velocity Control, what with the car and projectile examples, it's a spell without a Duration. i.e. a one-time speed bost, as if the target were pushed by force to increase their speed.
          It's a Potency-Primary spell, which is not the same thing as a spell with solely immediate effects. Consider that the spell has the express ability to reduce damage from projectile attacks but no published Reach option for reflexive use despite the spell immediately preceding it having both that option and an explicit caveat for affecting incoming bullets without preternatural speed.


          Yet another option for the pile: Change Gnosis from an additive to a multiplier.


          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
            It's a Potency-Primary spell, which is not the same thing as a spell with solely immediate effects. Consider that the spell has the express ability to reduce damage from projectile attacks but no published Reach option for reflexive use despite the spell immediately preceding it having both that option and an explicit caveat for affecting incoming bullets without preternatural speed.
            Good point, I was wrong on that part. Sill leaves us with unmodifiable multiplier to speed though. (also ... the spell would, for projectiles, be cast on an area? making all motion sluggishly slow or insanely fast, physically ... interesting )

            For the Levitation-flight I would either set it to Speed+Gnosis, so a bit faster, or just equal to land Speed with the option of doing a running kind of thing mid-flight for a speed boost.
            Otherwise it would seem the spell is doing too much in a way - convenient maneouverability flying and multiplying Speed is a bit much.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Aeryes View Post

              Good point, I was wrong on that part. Sill leaves us with unmodifiable multiplier to speed though.

              Which, as I stated earlier, isn't a barrier. No matter what multiplier you apply with Velocity Control you still have granular control over your speed due to Levitation. It just might take a little practice.


              Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy focusing on Mind and Forces

              Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy focusing on Matter and Prime

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              • #22
                This was an issue in the First Edition Mage the Awakening as well.
                Bill Bridges was asked about in the FAQ. There was a bit of debate with the point of contention being that it seemed silly that flight was slower or just as fast as running and flapping your arms.
                Bill Bridge said... Flap all you want. You're still not flying.
                So, the perspective is this... you can fly or you can't. Is it really so bad to fly as fast as you're running? Us the Gravity spell thing... and fall... but be able to fly in order to prevent your splat or control your fall. That's easier than Velocity Control, right?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post

                  Which, as I stated earlier, isn't a barrier. No matter what multiplier you apply with Velocity Control you still have granular control over your speed due to Levitation. It just might take a little practice.
                  Not a barrier, as such. And I do see your point.

                  However.

                  Noooowhyyyyy

                  To paraphrase the book: improvised magic is the most common form, as opposed to the
                  personal specialties of a Praxis or the formalized learning of a Rote.

                  Why settle for an awkward combination of two listed spells when you have the entirety of the supernal at your command? There's something you want to do? Learn the Arcanum to the proper depth of skill and understanding and just do it.

                  The listed example levitation spell doesn't suit your speed demands? REACH FOR MORE Isn't that what Mages do? Reach for mooore

                  Make a new spell. Improvise one. Or two to cast in a combination. Refine it 'till it's what you want in the way you want it. It you heart it muchly, make it a Praxis! Fly eeeeverywhere and use your connection with this spell to learn the deeper secrets of magic!


                  Been keeping that in since you posted about dealing with increments of speed. Not sure why but I found that idea quite distasteful. Don't get me wrong, it's doable, just goes against what I see Mages as.




                  P.S.
                  Obsession: Fly (Fly like Superman, Fly like Rogue, Fly like Storm )
                  And fiddle with spell effects and factors, getting closer and closer to your ideal of flying. Resolve the Obsession when your spell or combo is perfect in your mind.

                  Shadow Name(Kal-El / Anna Marie / Ororo Munroe) at as many dots as you can afford to add to your cool flying thing. And do other cool things those lot do.
                  Last edited by Aeryes; 02-20-2017, 12:54 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Aeryes View Post
                    Not a barrier, as such. And I do see your point.

                    However.

                    Noooowhyyyyy

                    To paraphrase the book: improvised magic is the most common form, as opposed to the
                    personal specialties of a Praxis or the formalized learning of a Rote.

                    Why settle for an awkward combination of two listed spells when you have the entirety of the supernal at your command? There's something you want to do? Learn the Arcanum to the proper depth of skill and understanding and just do it.

                    The listed example levitation spell doesn't suit your speed demands? REACH FOR MORE Isn't that what Mages do? Reach for mooore

                    Make a new spell. Improvise one. Or two to cast in a combination. Refine it 'till it's what you want in the way you want it. It you heart it muchly, make it a Praxis! Fly eeeeverywhere and use your connection with this spell to learn the deeper secrets of magic!


                    Been keeping that in since you posted about dealing with increments of speed. Not sure why but I found that idea quite distasteful. Don't get me wrong, it's doable, just goes against what I see Mages as.


                    Answer: because I was specifically responding to using Levitation + Velocity Control and what it would allow you to do. But I agree, making a different spell is probably better.



                    P.S.
                    Obsession: Fly (Fly like Superman, Fly like Rogue, Fly like Storm )
                    And fiddle with spell effects and factors, getting closer and closer to your ideal of flying. Resolve the Obsession when your spell or combo is perfect in your mind.

                    Shadow Name(Kal-El / Anna Marie / Ororo Munroe) at as many dots as you can afford to add to your cool flying thing. And do other cool things those lot do.

                    I believe I can fly
                    I believe I can touch the sky

                    I think about it every night and day
                    Spread my wings and fly away
                    I believe I can soar
                    I see me running through that open door
                    I believe I can fly
                    I believe I can fly
                    I believe I can fly


                    Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy focusing on Mind and Forces

                    Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy focusing on Matter and Prime

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post
                      Answer: because I was specifically responding to using Levitation + Velocity Control and what it would allow you to do. But I agree, making a different spell is probably better.
                      Not to defend my lil' flying rant there too much, but this was sort of my point. That's not really what Velocity Control does. Sure you can fiddle with learning how to move at desired speeds when they're all multiplies of 1+Potency, but at that point you may as well have cast a different spell, one that allows for control by means of the conveniently named Speed trait.

                      ... now I kind of want to play a Forces/Life Obrimos with Shadow Name (Kal El) and see what baggage that would bring along. I'tll pass :P

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                      • #26
                        I think I would just add an additional +1 Reach option to change the Gnosis + Potency Speed to Gnosis x Potency. So for the extra Reach, assuming you can get to 3 Potency you would be flying at 3 x 3 = 9 at Gnosis 3 instead of 3 + 3 = 6, with additional benefits if you can get the Potency or Gnosis up of course. Maybe a Master could get 5 x 5 = 25 speed, which is probably fast enough. I would also allow a full out charge to give you 2x Speed, like it does on the ground.
                        Last edited by Johnny Awesome; 02-28-2017, 12:21 PM.

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