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  • Lex Magica and other supernaturals

    From my reading of Lex Magica in 2E corebook and Sanctum & Sigil, it seems that Lex is written with assumption to adhering to Awakened and only minory to Sleepers. With Silver Ladder take on their Ladder of Existence and pointing Terata - other supernatural creatures, like vampires, werewolves, changelings, Prometheans, etc. - as being under any other part of Ladder run society and general Awakened attitude to objectifying other supernaturals as Mysteries to exploit - I read that to mages, Terata are at best 'under protection' of particular cabal or mage, but not sides in their own Lex as it is. If I'm wrong, point me where.

    In my crossover Boston game I have Promethean Tammuz player that is 'Living Mystery under protection' of mages PCs cabal. And it's officially written in cabals Protocols. Promethean player do not like he is treated as 'lapdog' of cabal, even when in light of Lex ( at least my read of it above ) it's exactly how he would be treated. Tammuz wants to change this situation and make recognition of Terata as being separate individuals under Lex Magics. How much possible it is? What he would need to do? I assume that at least some Consilium's Ruling Council meeting would be needed?


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  • #2
    The Lex, at least in 2e, seems like it's pretty flexible as to what it covers and is mostly decided from region to region, though it generally seems to be based around the protection of mages and mage interests. So chances are, unless a particular group of supernaturals pose a great enough threat to mage society in general within a certain region as to warrant a non-hostility law, the Lex isn't going to offer any sort of protection to them.

    So, as for being treated like a pet, that's mostly up to the discretion of the mage players. If they choose to treat him like a pet it's a bit of a dick move, but probably nothing punishable by mage law. Generally speaking, a promethean isn't going to be protected by the Lex, but a promethean also generally isn't going to find himself bound by mage law either.
    Last edited by Ashenrogue; 02-26-2017, 01:00 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ashenrogue View Post
      So, as for being treated like a pet, that's mostly up to the discretion of the mage players. If they choose to treat him like a pet it's a bit of a dick move, but probably nothing punishable by mage law. Generally speaking, a promethean isn't going to be protected by the Lex, but a promethean also generally isn't going to find himself bound by mage law either.
      It's not that mage players, per se, treat Tammuz as pet - it's more as he is treated as such from rest of Awakened society on my read of Lex to this day. 'Oh, it's a cabal XYZ and their pet Created' and such.

      And Promthean not bound by the Lex - if not under protection of cabal in Lex - he will be open season for all those Masters and Adepts out there that would love to make him his slave or experiment object. If you are not protected by Lex, you are treated as everything other in Fallen World - and that means high Arcana Pentacle mages can do anything to you. ( Or at least it's my understanding of Lex. )


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      • #4
        If the Promethean wants to change the local legal system, they'd have to do it the same way the suffragettes got women the vote: Convince the people who already have the authority that it's the right thing to do (and in their best interests). Ultimately, though, it's not in their interests to do so, and there's a strong argument about Supernal sympathy to be made on the question of rightness.

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        • #5
          Sounds like that episode of Next Generation where Data had to fight in court to prove he is more then a machine to be taken apart, studied and replicated.

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          • #6
            Sounds pretty much like its working as intended. Mages look down on other supernaturals as their playthings instead of as people. High Wisdom mages might object to this view, but more powerful lower Wisdom mages will very unlikely see a problem. Mages have a serious problems of racial superiority and prejudice in their society - werewolves and hunters aren't the only ones who perpetuate Van Helsing Hate Crimes.

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            • #7
              Silver Ladder is supposed to guide people along the Ladder of Existence. Since Prometheans not only want to, but are able to become human, the Ladder dogma can be interpreted in their favor. After all, they're not dead ends like Vampires are. However, it would demand proving that the Pilgrimage is a real thing and then changing the societal attitudes. Even then it wouldn't put Prometheans on the same level as Mages. They would be closer to Proximi and Sleepwalker assistants.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by BurritoMage View Post
                Sounds like that episode of Next Generation where Data had to fight in court to prove he is more then a machine to be taken apart, studied and replicated.
                Thanks I will check it out then.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                  Thanks I will check it out then.
                  It's called Measure of a Man

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                  • #10
                    The way Mage society works, even if you managed to convince the Consilium that other Supernaturals deserve some protection under the Lex you'd still run into the same problem everywhere else. So good luck if he ever leaves Boston.

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                    • #11
                      Remember also. These are beings that can't agree that ghosts, the reminants of people they actually cared about and cherished, should be treated with the dignity of a person and not enslaved. Now, add on Disquiet and the natural revulsion humans feel towards the Created. Tack on the fact we're dealing with a Mystery and mages aren't known for letting mysteries have free reign, but have been known to sell their very souls (both to the Exarchs and to the Abyss) for control over.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                        It's not that mage players, per se, treat Tammuz as pet - it's more as he is treated as such from rest of Awakened society on my read of Lex to this day. 'Oh, it's a cabal XYZ and their pet Created' and such.

                        And Promthean not bound by the Lex - if not under protection of cabal in Lex - he will be open season for all those Masters and Adepts out there that would love to make him his slave or experiment object. If you are not protected by Lex, you are treated as everything other in Fallen World - and that means high Arcana Pentacle mages can do anything to you. ( Or at least it's my understanding of Lex. )
                        Unfortunately that's just how mage society is, and while there might even be laws passed to give prometheans the same rights as mages, there will almost certainly be no laws made telling mages how to treat a promethean. So a mage that was going to be a dick and treat your player like a pet would probably still treat him like a pet. Then tack on the fact that I'm sure there'd be some people who would resent his inclusion into the lex and take steps to correct it.

                        Honestly, I don't really see another supernatural not part of a major society ever raising above just being under a certain mage/cabals protection. Obviously it can happen and probably has happened somewhere before, I just don't think it would be at all common and might not be worth the effort.

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                        • #13
                          Also, Mage politics does very little to take equality into account for anyone. Are you an apprentice? Then shut up, you're your Master's subordinate with very few protections. Are you friends with the Councilor? No? Then shut up, because unless you start currying more favor no one wants to listen to your opinion. Etc.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MCN View Post
                            Remember also. These are beings that can't agree that ghosts, the reminants of people they actually cared about and cherished, should be treated with the dignity of a person and not enslaved. Now, add on Disquiet and the natural revulsion humans feel towards the Created. Tack on the fact we're dealing with a Mystery and mages aren't known for letting mysteries have free reign, but have been known to sell their very souls (both to the Exarchs and to the Abyss) for control over.
                            To be fair to Mages: You can talk to your own ghost. That does something to diminish your perception that they are any more important than a video recording of your loved one.

                            Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                            Also, Mage politics does very little to take equality into account for anyone. Are you an apprentice? Then shut up, you're your Master's subordinate with very few protections. Are you friends with the Councilor? No? Then shut up, because unless you start currying more favor no one wants to listen to your opinion. Etc.
                            This is indeed the case, though it raises an interesting corollary: The Free Council's Assemblies are way more likely to recognize the Promethean as a member with the same voting rights as any Awakened. For them, equality is a mandate from the Supernal, just as distinction between classes of people is a mandate for the Diamond Orders.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Axelgear View Post
                              This is indeed the case, though it raises an interesting corollary: The Free Council's Assemblies are way more likely to recognize the Promethean as a member with the same voting rights as any Awakened. For them, equality is a mandate from the Supernal, just as distinction between classes of people is a mandate for the Diamond Orders.
                              True, and at the same time they're obviously biased in favor of humanity instead of its supernatural offshoots.

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