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Increasing Mana Costs

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    The Invisible Realms (the Astral, the Shadow and the Underworld) are all part of the Fallen World, though.
    Less severe though, like he said.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
      If the Fallen World is indeed the source of this Mana tax, then is it alleviated or even removed in Supernal Verges, Demesnes, and Emanations? What about the Invisible Realms, where the Lie is not so severe? What about Abyssal Verges and Anunnaki?

      EDIT: Oh, and what about the myriad half-worlds of the Lower Depths, which are perpetually hungry?
      Certain places closer to the supernal would be free, yes. Had not thought much about the lower realms though.

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      • #18
        Mages can't go to the Lower Depths anyway without being consumed. If there were a Verge to a Lower Depth I'd actually increase mana costs because they are very hungry pits of horror.

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        • #19
          Mages can't go to those Lower Depths that can't sustain their physical forms without being destroyed ("consumed" has certain implications that aren't necessarily true). Those appear to be the most common type of Lower Depth, but there are at least two Lower Depths that do support living beings: The Garden/Annwn and Strix-World (Dis?)


          Bloodline: The Stygians
          Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Aristarkos View Post
            ​Interesting suggestions, all of them. Have you tried these yourself and how did that go?
            I haven't used any of these, they were basically off the top of my head, almost certainly influenced by other people's ideas on these forums and elsewhere.

            1: ​I kind of like this one, especially if I would wish to drive home the idea of the Fallen World as a really repressive place where mages are not welcome.
            I had something like Warhammer's magic system in mind here, where every spell risks horrible brain explosions and so on. One nice thing is that you can tune how sever it is by changing the default starting point (e.g. a chance die vs a normal die, 2 dice etc).

            ​3: I fear that my players would grumble a whole lot about this one and with reason. While it's not a bad idea considering my goals, it is a somewhat heavy-handed thing to do.
            Maybe another avenue is to require a certain amount (25/50/75/100%) of the XP spent to be Arcane XP. You could also require that Gnosis be bought with Arcane XP. That still slows things down a bit without being as obviously heavy-handed.

            The consequence of Gravity Control and Psychic Domination being more powerful is somewhat lessened though by the fact that with higher XP costs the players will have less Potency and other Spell Factors to work with?
            That kind of helps for Psychic Domination, though it'll still be scary as hell (as it should be). Gravity Control isn't Withstood, so the lack of Potency matters less there, especially if it's a Rote. Honestly though, all the Arcana can do at least some scary stuff at 2 dots, it's just that those spells are obvious and relatively easy to use effectively.

            ​4: I like this one a lot, it would certainly change themes a lot and, as you say, approximate some of my goals while not rendering Paths mechanically void. You have suggestions to look up if someone has already done this? I only know of Papa Bear's 25 Paths and Pendragons homebrew, neither of which actually does specifically this.
            Personally, I think 25 Paths is overkill. I'd do something like this:

            Each Arcana has an 'opposed pair'. Each Mage awakens to a particular Arcana-Path, and so has that Arcana's opposed pair as their Inferior Arcana.

            A quick spitball of opposed pairs (roughly based on existing path/Inferior stuff) might look like this:

            Death-Spirit
            Fate-Forces
            Life-Mind
            Matter-Space
            Time-Prime

            Some of these work well, though it's a bit tricky because both Moros Arcana are Inferior for another Path normally, and neither of the Acanthus Arcana are. I also feel that while some of these are thematically solid, Time-Prime really stands out as strange, and in general it's hard to find a naturally opposed Arcana for Prime that doesn't cause other weird outcomes. Mind

            You could also let players pick their Ruling Arcana/Path and then:

            (a) let them pick their Inferior Arcana, or
            (b) do away with Inferior Arcana entirely, or
            (c) make all other Arcana Inferior

            I'd probably suggest (a) or (b) if you go this way, since (c) is essentially suggestion 3 in slightly different packaging anyway.

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