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Mechanical Effects of Mage Sight

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  • Mechanical Effects of Mage Sight

    I don't really understand mechanical effects of Mage Sight. For example, does mage with Active Mind Sight automatically notices all thinking creatures, no matter their Stealth? How do mundane efforts to conceal something work against Mage Sight?

  • #2
    The thing you're looking at has to be in sensory range, so it would depend on if they're actually out of sight, hearing, etc. or not.

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    • #3
      The second paragraph of the Active Sight section states that the character must perceive the phenomenon in question. It can't be behind a wall or in another plane.

      A Mage with Active Mind Sight wouldn't sense a person hiding in a tree, but if the tree itself is sapient, they'd know it. They wouldn't hear someone moving perfectly silently, but if they heard a mysterious droning, they would know it was being made by something intelligent (even if they don't know it's a swarm of sapient robo-bees).

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      • #4
        What if they had a spell on them giving them, say, ability to perceive things through gravity ("gravity sense") or a spell that gives them ability to sense minds ("mind sight")?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by WHW View Post
          What if they had a spell on them giving them, say, ability to perceive things through gravity ("gravity sense&quot or a spell that gives them ability to sense minds ("mind sight&quot?
          While I dunno if there's a rule addressing this, my gut feeling is to allow Unveiling or similar enhancement spells to stack with Mage Sight.

          For example, Outward and Inward Eye could get rid of "you can't see through walls and doors" restriction, and Zoom In could be used to scan with Mage Sight from miles away.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by WHW View Post
            What if they had a spell on them giving them, say, ability to perceive things through gravity ("gravity sense") or a spell that gives them ability to sense minds ("mind sight")?
            I'm constantly using Mage Sight through The Outward and Inward Eye (once supplemented with Zoom and Heightened Senses to look over a whole neighborhood). To me it was always clear that if you have your senses enhanced it would also enhance your Mage Sight. Was that asumption wrong?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Axelgear View Post
              The second paragraph of the Active Sight section states that the character must perceive the phenomenon in question. It can't be behind a wall or in another plane.

              A Mage with Active Mind Sight wouldn't sense a person hiding in a tree, but if the tree itself is sapient, they'd know it. They wouldn't hear someone moving perfectly silently, but if they heard a mysterious droning, they would know it was being made by something intelligent (even if they don't know it's a swarm of sapient robo-bees).

              So you can't hear the thoughts of a person hiding behind a sofa in the same room as you? I thought Active Mind Sight would pick up on the static of thought processes, like a mind signature or beacon alerting you that a thinking being is near. Then you could use other methods to decipher what that thinking being is contemplating.

              Does it make a difference if they're hiding inside of a tree or lurking around the corner? Presumably, a lurker around the corner is still within sensory range if noise would give them away.

              Or do we only count it if they're actively communicating information via that sensory path? Meaning you can cast a spell on someone you can hear for as long as you can hear them, then once they go silent, you lose their signal. Same as losing their scent or losing sight of them.

              Put another way, you could conceivable use Active Mind Sight on them if they either made themselves visible to your eyes, or audible? Does that also mean you could use their smell to detect their thoughts? Familiar perfume? Or maybe a life or matter spell to detect a certain pheromone or substance? ... Does that mean you could detect them in the room with Active Mind Sight if you were chewing on a lock of their hair or licking an amputated finger? lol

              EDIT: I assume the last bit would translate into sympathy magic unless you were tasting their physical person, at which point you've found your target without needing to use Mind Sight ...
              Last edited by kryptonitekrusher; 03-03-2017, 08:26 PM.

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              • #8
                If you can receive sensory information (Any sensory information) of their presence or a live feed you can perceive them with Mage Sight.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                  If you can receive sensory information (Any sensory information) of their presence or a live feed you can perceive them with Mage Sight.

                  My issue with this is, in the example above the person is hiding in a tree. How much concealment does the tree provide? If you were to speak in a hallowed out tree and I can hear you as I walk past, does that mean I can pick up your mind with Active Mind Sight?

                  I'm wondering if Mind Sight checks the physical space and verifies if a wall is too thick, another way to think of it is whether or not it is dampened by the nature of the material between you and your target. A water resistant tent versus a one-foot thick reinforced titanium door.

                  If it works how you explained, then it operates on the presumption of can (as in not presently happening, but possible to occur.) Meaning the person within the tree is not 100% hidden unless it is deemed that the tree provides enough concealment to hide the person from mundane senses. Like thoughts that would have been audible are sufficiently dampened by the tree, versus the guy in the shadows has nothing to dampen his thoughts and is clearly heard despite skulking quietly.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kryptonitekrusher View Post
                    If it works how you explained, then it operates on the presumption of can (as in not presently happening, but possible to occur.) Meaning the person within the tree is not 100% hidden unless it is deemed that the tree provides enough concealment to hide the person from mundane senses. Like thoughts that would have been audible are sufficiently dampened by the tree, versus the guy in the shadows has nothing to dampen his thoughts and is clearly heard despite skulking quietly.
                    If you couldn't perceive the person in the tree with your mundane senses then you couldn't perceive him with Mind Sight, the same goes for the guy skulking in the shadows. Mage Sight offers some enhancements to your mundane perceptions but they work in a lateral direction rather than a progressive one.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post

                      If you couldn't perceive the person in the tree with your mundane senses then you couldn't perceive him with Mind Sight, the same goes for the guy skulking in the shadows. Mage Sight offers some enhancements to your mundane perceptions but they work in a lateral direction rather than a progressive one.
                      So I can't hear the skulker's thoughts unless I actually see him or he makes a noise? I especially thought that Active Mage Sight could, because I could've sworn that Active Death Sight could see even in-active ghosts.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kryptonitekrusher View Post
                        So I can't hear the skulker's thoughts unless I actually see him or he makes a noise? I especially thought that Active Mage Sight could, because I could've sworn that Active Death Sight could see even in-active ghosts.
                        That only comes with the Death 2 Utility Attainment that specifically upgrades that part of your Mage Sight which comes along with inactive ghosts pinging PMS. The Mind 2 Utility Attainment specifically only allows you to detect goetia lingering in Twilight so it still wouldn't be able to detect the skulker.

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                        • #13
                          You actually can't hear a person's thoughts with Mind Sight; you can simply tell if the thing you're looking at is able to think. It's not like the thing suddenly becomes brighter or more obvious; more like it suddenly gets painted a new colour that instantly tells you something when you see it. If you can't see the thing, you can't see the colour.

                          Worth noting that Active Mage Sight actively makes it harder to detect stuff as well (that -2 to actions Active Mage Sight inflicts includes sensory perception). The Mage is tripping balls; their vision and senses just got more cluttered. It's like suddenly having the infrared and ultraviolet+ spectra of light overlaid suddenly on your vision; you can definitely tell new information from it, but it's all there at once and overwhelming enough that only looking for looking for specific details can possibly make it clear.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Axelgear View Post
                            You actually can't hear a person's thoughts with Mind Sight; you can simply tell if the thing you're looking at is able to think. It's not like the thing suddenly becomes brighter or more obvious; more like it suddenly gets painted a new colour that instantly tells you something when you see it. If you can't see the thing, you can't see the colour.

                            Worth noting that Active Mage Sight actively makes it harder to detect stuff as well (that -2 to actions Active Mage Sight inflicts includes sensory perception). The Mage is tripping balls; their vision and senses just got more cluttered. It's like suddenly having the infrared and ultraviolet+ spectra of light overlaid suddenly on your vision; you can definitely tell new information from it, but it's all there at once and overwhelming enough that only looking for looking for specific details can possibly make it clear.

                            That makes a ton more sense--the assigning of details to what is already observed.

                            Then how would you hear the droning of a swarm if you can't see them? Is it because you're using Active Mind Sight on noise you can already hear, and then AMS lets you know there are thousands of unique minds in that source?

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                            • #15
                              Active Mage Sight is interpretation of information drawn through all your senses. There's no reason it would only apply to sight, despite what the name might imply; humans are simply more sight dependent, so we get proportionately less information through our other senses. A Thyrsus who, say, uses Heightened Senses, though, could probably sniff out toxins in someone's blood from across a pitch black room with Life Sight.

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