Can spirit use Strengthen, Manipulate or Control Influence on itself to have effect similiar to Shielding Practice and force Clash of Wills with those uppity Spirit mages who want to rewrite it's nature?
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Using Influence on itself
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Originally posted by branford View PostThe spirit would need an Influence over "spirits" to boost itself and force a clash of wills against direct Spirit magic. I doubt that's something a spirit below Rank 8 or 9 would posses.
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Originally posted by Dark Archon View PostIt would have Influence over it's own nature, which should be enough to protect oneself.Onyx Path Forum Moderator
My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.
Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.
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Originally posted by Dark Archon View PostWell, that's too bad, because it means that Master of Spirit can overwrite and redefine virtually every spirit under rank 6 on the fly, and spirit has no way to defend itself. Withstand with Rank is a joke.
Unless you feel like trying your luck using an Aimed Spell on something that needs to be absurdly specialized (when the entire deal with high-Rank spirits is that they stopped specializing to become what they are) to have its universally-applicable Defense sitting below eight or nine dice, that's three Reach out of two just on getting the spell to hit and last, to say nothing of what Scale Factors might be needed.
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Originally posted by Satchel View Postavoid counting as an Act of Hubris
Originally posted by Satchel View PostUnless you feel like trying your luck using an Aimed Spell on something that needs to be absurdly specialized (when the entire deal with high-Rank spirits is that they stopped specializing to become what they are) to have its universally-applicable Defense sitting below eight or nine dice, that's three Reach out of two just on getting the spell to hit and last, to say nothing of what Scale Factors might be needed.
Originally posted by EW-Matias View PostA spirit wouldn't fare much better in a Clash of Wills, to be honest.
Originally posted by EW-Matias View PostSpirits are mostly helpless againts Spirit mages I'm ok with that.
Last edited by Dark Archon; 03-06-2017, 06:15 AM.
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Originally posted by Dark Archon View PostOh, woe is me, I can't find a Fate re-roll or Willpower point to throw 6 dice and avoid Wisdom loss! This is even more of a joke, even if you forget that "Every mage and every circumstance is different from a Wisdom standpoint."
One more Reach for the Master, Paradox from which is easily remedied by Mana and Dedicated Magical Tool. Scale is easily beaten by 10+ Master dicepool even before applying Yantras. Spirits are just non-threat to dedicated Adept and fully joke for a Master.
Depends on that he would roll. I think Rank 4-5 spirits would be pretty ok with their 20+ dicepools against 10+ pools of Spirit mages.
I am most certainly not. You can't have them as antagonists, if Arcana 4 just makes them a non-threat.
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You can't use Willpower on degeneration rolls, nor should any ST allow spells to affect such rolls.
Ephemeral entities uses Rank + Influence for their Clash of Wills, meaning 10 is maximum for entities that doesn't have plot device powers. Oh, and if they clash when using Numina they only get to roll Rank since Numina doesn't have dot rankings.
There's a single exeption, though. Spirits may clash using Power + Finesse when resisting the Annihilate Spirit spell. But that's the only time a Rank 5 spirit can get more than 10 dice.
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Originally posted by 21C Hermit View PostAll is dandy and fine until the Rank 4-5 spirits stop being sitting ducks and punching bags, and actually start retaliating. Like every self-aware being with notions of self-preservation do.
Originally posted by 21C Hermit View PostAnd then something like the idigam come to say hello...
Originally posted by Tessie View PostYou can't use Willpower on degeneration rolls, nor should any ST allow spells to affect such rolls.
Originally posted by Tessie View PostEphemeral entities uses Rank + Influence for their Clash of Wills, meaning 10 is maximum for entities that doesn't have plot device powers.
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Originally posted by Dark Archon View PostAnd then they find out that they literally can't resist spells like Banishment, Bind Spirit and Shape Spirit, because Adept squarely neutralise Rank 4 and Master - Rank 5.
Of course, they're fair game if a mage ever gets to them. And honestly, they deserve it if they allowed a big opening like that. It's like trying to fight a boxing champion in melee, when you can and should have picked up a gun.
They are rank 4 to 5. No rank 6 Idigam in the entire Forsaken 2e book. Masters will just have Idigam serve them as personal playthings.
"Both the Formless and Coalesced are immune to supernatural powers that would command them, master them, or reshape their abilities, whether from Gifts, rites, or the witchcraft of other beings. The idigam can be bound or forced into dormancy, but they can never simply be leashed like a dog and forced into obedience. Their ancient, ever-flowing Essence simply shrugs off any such attempts to chain them to docility."
A nasty surprise for any Spirit mage, to be sure.
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Originally posted by 21C Hermit View PostSo they never let mages approach them in the first place. ​Pretty much how every supernatural being defend themselves from mages.
Originally posted by 21C Hermit View PostIdigam in particular have this nice description in the Werewolf book:
"Both the Formless and Coalesced are immune to supernatural powers that would command them, master them, or reshape their abilities, whether from Gifts, rites, or the witchcraft of other beings. The idigam can be bound or forced into dormancy, but they can never simply be leashed like a dog and forced into obedience. Their ancient, ever-flowing Essence simply shrugs off any such attempts to chain them to docility."
A nasty surprise for any Spirit mage, to be sure.
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