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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dark Archon View Post
    Or they don't. Not every action have a deep consequences with further complications; sometimes you can do a thing you want to do and get away free with it.
    And mage can tell precisely which actions will have consequences and which won't. It's called Time Magic.
    I should point out that Time magic isn't infallible when dealing with the future. The future isn't set in stone and sometimes just knowing that a certain outcome is supposed to happen changes whether it will or not. Sure, this isn't something that likely happens often, and even unmanageable consequences don't always stem from reckless actions, but sometimes they do, and the bigger the ripple, the further it travels.

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    • #47
      A mage that never does anything unless they know with 100% certainty that the consequences will not come back to bite them won't perform a single meaningful (read game worthy) deed in their life anyway.


      Bloodline: The Stygians

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      • #48
        Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post
        If the Storyteller has the player see the future and base their actions on the results where there is a way to get away with everything without consequence and have nothing interesting EVER happen, then that is the fault of a bad Storyteller, not the system.
        Define "interesting", because a lot of that I consider "interesting" isn't going to be a problem for a dedicated Master.

        Originally posted by Ashenrogue View Post
        but sometimes they do, and the bigger the ripple, the further it travels.
        And most of the times, they don't. And the more you are skilled in Time Arcana, the less it happens.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Dark Archon View Post
          Define "interesting", because a lot of that I consider "interesting" isn't going to be a problem for a dedicated Master.


          And most of the times, they don't. And the more you are skilled in Time Arcana, the less it happens.
          And if you're that skilled at Time magic you probably aren't the greatest Spirit mage, so then you'll have a bit of a problem dealing with those pesky spirits you're so concerned about.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Dark Archon View Post
            Or they don't. Not every action have a deep consequences with further complications; sometimes you can do a thing you want to do and get away free with it.
            Umm... that's what I meant in the second paragraph in that post. Why did you leave that out?

            And mage can tell precisely which actions will have consequences and which won't. It's called Time Magic.
            Ashenrogue put up a good counterargument to this. A hypothetical mage in a white room can do everything. In reality? Not every mage will have necessary Time magic to foresee their consequences. Even if they do have enough to see into the future, they might need more mojo to actually do something about it. Oh, and its entirely possible that events turn up where you can see it coming, but can't do jack about it. Like how you can see the ground shake, but by that time it's too late and you're in the middle of an earthquake.

            And honestly, if the mage uses Time to plan out his actions, then I call it a Wise enough attitude to pat him on the back. Problems only rise when the mage slips up, lets his guard down, and starts thinking, "Oh hell, what's the worst that could happen?" and skimps on cautionary measures both mundane and magical.


            MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Dark Archon View Post
              My opinion wouldn't mean squat in this situation.
              You'd still be entitled to it, and I'd have to consider if I should do it.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Dark Archon View Post
                Define "interesting", because a lot of that I consider "interesting" isn't going to be a problem for a dedicated Master.
                A Bound getting released; a horde of Abyssal abominations in a populated city, a powerful Artifact falling into the hands of other Masters (particularly Seers or other antagonist Mages), an entire State being subsumed into the Underworld, etc.

                I mean, if you can't thing of interesting situations for your Master level players then that's on you. There are plenty of ideas in the books and other media out there to help.

                An Example (Spoilers for the Dresden Files):


                In the Dresden series Harry eventually wipes out an entire species of Vampire, and in the next book the world has gone to shit because suddenly all of the systems that they manipulated are going crazy and the other supernaturals are moving in to fill the void.


                Have the actions of your players inadvertently cause the destruction of an entire Vampire Covenant or the destruction of all of the Forsaken. Now they have to deal with the fallout from that.


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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Dark Archon View Post
                  My opinion wouldn't mean squat in this situation.
                  I will assume you don't -really- mean that. Because that's the mentality of a psychopath. And yes, the game encourages Mages to act and think like psychopaths, but you as a player shouldn't be cheering them on...

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                    You'd still be entitled to it, and I'd have to consider if I should do it.
                    You don't have to consider it, you can consider it if you feel like it. Or can just go ahead with it.


                    Originally posted by EW-Matias View Post
                    I will assume you don't -really- mean that. Because that's the mentality of a psychopath.
                    I meant that, and psychopaths don't have the same mentality. In fact, they have the exact opposite of this: they either don't care about consequences at all (which doesn't mean you can deal with them), or they think they can deal with them (in which case they are more stupid than psychopaths).

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Dark Archon View Post
                      You don't have to consider it, you can consider it if you feel like it. Or can just go ahead with it.
                      You're still ignoring the point I'm making, which is -should- I?

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                        You're still ignoring the point I'm making, which is -should- I?
                        Should depends on consequences. If you can kill me, and then remake the world so that the world never knew I even existed - no consequences in the external world - and you are the person who would feel nothing and even forget the fact - no consequences in the inner world - the question "should I" just loses meaning. Why should you? Why shouldn't you? Either way, it doesn't matter.

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                        • #57
                          I see we have pretty different views of morality.

                          Regardless though, Mages are only slightly more capable of covering up their crimes than people. What can be done by Mages can be undone or found out. So there are consequences to Mages action, which apparently is what you use to define whether or not a thing should be done. The game thus still falls into the question of not what can a Mage do, but what should a Mage do?

                          For your argument to work a Mage would have to exist in a vacuum.
                          Last edited by Mrmdubois; 03-07-2017, 05:38 AM.

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