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  • Mortality as an Obsession

    I'm setting up a new Awakening game, and one of my Players is considering a Moros. Her idea for her character's first obsession is to find a way to return his lover, who was turned into a vampire, back to life. I like the idea, and I think it would make a great obsession, however, since it's been a long time since I ran 1st edition, and I have no experience with 2nd - how feastable is this plan? And would you accept this as an Obsession?

  • #2
    It's a cool Obsession, but here is a serious question: what is the starting Gnosis of the character in question, and if it's below three, how long do you plan on that being the case?

    I ask because there is a very pragmatic reason for it: until gnosis three, you get only one Obsession slot. This means that if you pick something really long, and this looks like something that would define the arc of the character and last for months, you are kinda stuck with it and can't, for example, use your Obsession slot on something reachable. Like, I don't know, something relating to the current game. :P
    If you want your players to have long reaching Obsessions, either awards mana and A.Beats for anything relating to them, kinda like long term aspirations work, or give them an extra slot. One for character defining, long term Obsession, and one for short term, immediate game related Obsession.

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    • #3
      It would be Gnosis 1 - I thought Obsessions worked like long term aspirations, but I just noticed I misread the rules. I think I'll go with using them according to my first reading.

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      • #4
        They work like Aspirations in general, and grant some minor bonuses when working on them.

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        • #5
          So how doable is it to turn a vampire back into a mortal?

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          • #6
            General rule of thumb is that anything that brings dead back to live erases their template. Still, it's a long term plan; unless you are going to try something cheesy, like abusing Spirit rules to grab Ressurection Numina, to do this "on your own" will take at least Death Mastery. Which is a long trek away from chargen. The quickest "legit"option seems to be bargaining with a Death Summoned Being or grabbing an Artifact. There are other measures, like Time Magic, but they tend to be temporary and vulnerable to dispellation and other unpleasant troubles.

            It's also worth noting that this kind of action seems to be very against Moros Wisdom; Moros Path in general is all about change and accepting that things should not revert, and that change; which Death represents; is good. You could do a whole character arc based about exploring this topic, I think. Both questions "how do I do this" and "SHOULD I do this" are very important. Wisdom answers "no", but this is a game about Hubris, so make sure to communicate that while something is Unwise, doesn't mean it's not within players right, so to speak.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by WHW View Post
              General rule of thumb is that anything that brings dead back to live erases their template. Still, it's a long term plan; unless you are going to try something cheesy, like abusing Spirit rules to grab Ressurection Numina, to do this "on your own" will take at least Death Mastery.
              And it's worth noting that this one in particular is not just cheesy but not really supported by the material — Resurrection as a core Numen both isn't reprinted in Mage's list of Numina (which is a conspicuous absence akin to the lack of Claim in its Manifestation listing) and doesn't work for characters with templates that they had to die to get, which explicitly includes vampires.

              Time seems like the most viable solution, assuming reasonably that the character in question was turned within the mage's lifetime and therefore can still get items with sympathy to the vampire's mortal days to proceed from stopgaps like Temporal Summoning and Rewrite History to eventually directly preventing the Embrace in a lasting manner. (The inbuilt tricky part, of course, is that if the vampire in question isn't in torpor or otherwise on ice, the issues of what changing their past means to them and how a return to mortality might affect the relationship at that point given the whole "your lover can change your past through your shared history" wrinkle.)


              Resident Sanguinary Analyst
              Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Infernal Teddy View Post
                So how doable is it to turn a vampire back into a mortal?
                Removing a major template requires Archmastery, I want to say specifically 7 dots in the relevant Arcana, plus it's a breach of the Pax Arcana and would require some gnarly Quintessence.

                So... not very doable.


                Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy focusing on Mind and Forces

                Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy focusing on Matter and Prime

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post

                  Removing a major template requires Archmastery, I want to say specifically 7 dots in the relevant Arcana, plus it's a breach of the Pax Arcana and would require some gnarly Quintessence.

                  So... not very doable.

                  The Practice of Excisions. Death 7 would remove the vampire template, although since Excisions tend to be surgical removals, what results is a bit unclear. I guess it's up to the ST. You might need Life 7 using the practice of Entities to restore life to the body. The easiest way to "remove" the vampire template is to have Time 5 or 6 and simply alter history in a Lasting manner. Go back in time to when the person would be Embraced, and direct an alternate course of action. This works especially well as lovers because you're likely to be together with the person.

                  Of course, even a regular mage with Time 5 "removing" a vampire template this way is probably going to attract attention from some unfriendly godlike powers.

                  Edit: Even better, once you get Time mastery and go back in time to save your loved one from vampirism, this could be an entire Story arc in the Chronicle. Several sessions could be spent dealing with the fallout from the events of saving one from the Embrace, and also the loved one discovering that their partner is a Mage (don't forget about Quiescence!).
                  Last edited by projectmoon; 03-09-2017, 05:33 AM.

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                  • #10
                    I'd begin with giving the character rumors about an unchained agency dedicated to resurrecting people for a hefty price (souls may be involved) then have the resurrection attempt get botched somehow with something like a Strix possessing the vampire. After the whole ordeal of recuperating her lover, and getting her soul back I'd allow the character to review her obsession. Thinking BuffyxAngel undertones.

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                    • #11
                      I agree with Malus. If you're not planning on letting your players get Archmastery, but still wanna do the Vampire Ressurrection, explore the wonders of the Chronicle of Darkness. With mage errata, not even Time can make a Vampire alive again, if you turn them into a child, before they where bitten, they'll be a child vampire.

                      Try to use the Stryx if you can. They seem to be the thing that is most in contact with the Beast inside the vampires. But if you are looking for rules on how to do it. Apart from Archmastery and other godly powers, there's little a player can do. In my opinion, the best way to handle this is making the PC venture and discover hints that points towards a powerful entity that, for a really big price, can make this wish come true.


                      Check my homebrews:
                      Vampire Bloodlines: Kiasyd
                      Mage Legacies: Infernal Ones, Daoine

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                      • #12
                        If someone chooses to make a long term obsession, reward them with beats/mana for taking some time and effort towards the obsession. One of my players has an obsession to put all ghosts in the world to rest with a single powerful Death spell. Obviously this is a thing only possible by Archmasters. So every time he successfully puts a ghost to rest, or works towards strengthing his Death arcanum, I give him an arcane beat and a mana.

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                        • #13
                          Satchel is right, while Time Magic may not be able to turn a vampire back into a human in the present, Time does allow time travel, which makes it possible to Corridors of Time her back to before she was embraced so she can prevent it fron happening in the first place. Or, assuming she was embraced during the Mage's lifetime, Corridors himself back to before she was embraced so he can prevent it.


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                          • #14
                            Isn't it possible they would just be Embraced at a later date, but still before the present time?

                            I suppose you could use some long-lasting Fate spell to ensure they wouldn't be Embraced, but then they just might die instead of turning into a vampire.

                            This seems like it would happen more often in mage wars.
                            Last edited by nofather; 03-09-2017, 01:53 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Horodrigo View Post
                              I agree with Malus. If you're not planning on letting your players get Archmastery, but still wanna do the Vampire Ressurrection, explore the wonders of the Chronicle of Darkness. With mage errata, not even Time can make a Vampire alive again, if you turn them into a child, before they where bitten, they'll be a child vampire.

                              Try to use the Stryx if you can. They seem to be the thing that is most in contact with the Beast inside the vampires. But if you are looking for rules on how to do it. Apart from Archmastery and other godly powers, there's little a player can do. In my opinion, the best way to handle this is making the PC venture and discover hints that points towards a powerful entity that, for a really big price, can make this wish come true.
                              Time can indeed de-vampire a vampire, although it's not a direct effect of the Arcanum. The errata changed Temporal Summoning to not undo supernatural conditions like vampirism, but it's explicitly mentioned as part of the spell Rewrite History (Time 4) that you can remove supernatural templates for the spell's Duration. If you go back in time, you can work to prevent the Embrace. Once you get back to the present, that effect becomes Lasting. Of course, Time is fickle and maybe the person gets Embraced at a later time...

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