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Lex Magica Gold Laws

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  • #16
    From what I understand text of Silver Ladder Orderbook on matter, Gold Laws are showing in at least few Time Before sites and by this they are validate as 'Supernal in origin'. So theoretically it could simply be Law of 'Wore fancy hats' in 3 Atlantean sites and all that is needed to make a case with Lex Magica?


    Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
    My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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    • #17
      Nuh-uh. Gold Laws are laws that independently arose in at least three geographically isolated Consilia; the idea being that, if groups of totally disparate Mages all simultaneously thought up this idea, it must be Supernally-inspired.

      (In 1e, it was tied to a belief that it must be some relic of the Atlantean diaspora, but since the diaspora never happened...)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Axelgear View Post
        Nuh-uh. Gold Laws are laws that independently arose in at least three geographically isolated Consilia; the idea being that, if groups of totally disparate Mages all simultaneously thought up this idea, it must be Supernally-inspired.
        Here is interesting problem in my particular chronicle - We have Earth's Chakras Temples my PCs are 'visiting' ( more accurate would be 'robbing' ) . Sites were risen by group of Time Before Archmasters, each by his own device. ( Well, more like To the Strongest Archmasters that pose as to be truly from Time Before. Maybe more like 15-12 century BCE they are... ) If there would be common Law in at least 3 sites of them, would it still be 'Supernal' enough? /Taking in account that lower mages all assume Archmasters are really from Time Before./

        Originally posted by Axelgear View Post
        (In 1e, it was tied to a belief that it must be some relic of the Atlantean diaspora, but since the diaspora never happened...)
        Don't let it fool you! Disapora was, only it was reality edited by Exarchs! We have evidance - for one, Darshanas... < Start all the 'Atlantean' rambling on last Silver Ladder meeting >


        Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
        My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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        • #19
          "Every member of the state must tithe their quintessential power to the Great Work."
          "Every Grimoire must be presented to the Visus for review and catalog."
          "The innocent have nothing to hide from the Veil."
          "In honor of the pact with her Illumined Hand, the City of the Enlightened shall never again combine the runes of majesty and darkness."

          No one says that the laws have to be real or remotely a good idea. Or, as mentioned, comprehensible.
          The sites can be forgeries, too, of course.


          Grump, grouse, and/or gripe.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by thenate View Post
            "Every Grimoire must be presented to the Visus for review and catalog."
            Using Visus Draconis as part of Gold Law is too much in 2E - if Diamond Orders are creation of Roman Republic ( or at least dates seems to point this in corebook and Dark Eras ) you cannot have Visus Draconis as Order mentioned in Time Before sites - as it is was not created, yet.


            Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
            My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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            • #21
              Who said it's Visus Draconis. It's just "Visus". It could be a specific Mage, a function, a stone face in the middle of a lake...
              I really like idea of a mysterious sentence or two, or an "order" that isn't very clear. Make it reappear three or four times in different temples, and instead of focusing your efforts on "how to make the Law clear", create something that could be INTERPRETED differently by a lot of interested parties. OF COURSE Visus is Visus Draconis. OF COURSE Visus is not Visus Draconis, but a specific function, and we totally have a valid candidate for that. Etc.

              Basically, use the potential Law as a catalyst to emphasize how different parties want to push their agendas and what is their idea of better society.

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              • #22
                I just got possible idea/question - What if Archmasters would be trolling Silver Ladder? If their Chantires are Temples of Time Before, Archmasters just need to point 'Chosen One (Hieromagus) should rule the humans' as Law inscribed in their Temple and Silver Ladder should follow it, does it not? Connected topic to this - How to extract possible Golden Law from the Temple that is in deep Astral?


                Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
                My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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                • #23
                  The SL doesn't believe in the Heiragus and chantries don't count as ruins of the Time Before. The Guardians wouldn't take it at face value either, All Thrones Are False dictates they would test any potential Heiromagus harshly, including assasination attempts.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                    The SL doesn't believe in the Heiragus
                    They do not need to - 'Golden Law' says they need to. Also, SL believs in Atlantean Royality, Blood of Dragon - easily our 'Troll Law' can point to.

                    Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                    chantries don't count as ruins of the Time Before.
                    If we have PreFall Archmasters, it's moot point. For me 'PreFall Secret Realm of Magic' works as Temple of Time Before by ( loose ) definition, whatever in Archmasters souls or not.

                    Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                    The Guardians wouldn't take it at face value either, All Thrones Are False dictates they would test any potential Heiromagus harshly, including assasination attempts.
                    We do not talk here about Guardians - it's entirely other thing and other discussion. We talk here about Golden Laws and their uncovering for Silver Ladders.


                    Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
                    My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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                    • #25
                      If the SL happened to find a reference to the Heiragus in a ruin from the Time Before they might look into it, but they still wouldn't accept it on blind faith.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                        chantries don't count as ruins of the Time Before.
                        I think Wyrd's point is that a normal mage potentially wouldn't know the difference.

                        If their Chantires are Temples of Time Before, Archmasters just need to point 'Chosen One (Hieromagus) should rule the humans' as Law inscribed in their Temple and Silver Ladder should follow it, does it not?
                        It's a reasonable idea I think. Presumably lots of them are going to question it, but yeah I could see it.


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                        • #27
                          The Orders don't blindly follow the Gold Laws

                          Or anything for that matter, generally. Mages are sterner stuff than most.

                          If a new Gold Law was found demanding some pretty heinous shit I very much doubt the Silver Ladder would just buy in. Or anyone.
                          Last edited by Solar; 03-29-2017, 08:15 AM.

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                          • #28
                            What evidence of Golden Law Silver Ladder would need? Like image, writing, being possible to go to Temple of Time Before of any member?


                            Conquest of Paradise - Fan Dark Era about Portugal and Spain conquests in XVI century - Mage & Beast ( & Hunter )
                            My Hubs - VtR 2E System Hacks, MtAw 2E Legacies and System Hacks & WtF 2E Lodges and System Hacks

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                              What evidence of Golden Law Silver Ladder would need? Like image, writing, being possible to go to Temple of Time Before of any member?
                              You'd need to be able to bring back an artifact or for others to go to the site and for either of those to be under the temporal inscrutability that the stuff from the Time Before has as a defining characteristic at the very least.

                              That's to say nothing of the verification and process which would probably require at least a Convocation.

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                              • #30
                                And probably find the same law recorded in different places before it is even taken into consideration.


                                I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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