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  • #16
    Oh no, wait, Miracle with +2 reach for the wealth and fame and Mind Wipe for the childhood memories. Solved my own problem.

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    • #17
      Beast 's Lairs? I guess it would involve some weird combination of Spirit, Mind and Space.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Raistlin View Post
        Beast 's Lairs? I guess it would involve some weird combination of Spirit, Mind and Space.
        this one's tricky, you'd need 3-5 Mind to manipulate the temenos into a lair (can you make a demesne in the temenos?) and then Space to be able to draw people into it, HOWEVER, i'm uncertain that a person can be physically drawn into the temenos by awakened magic. Now since beasts can do it that means it's Possible and thus doable but it may require some serious magic if it's not a normal thing that can be done with the astral plane, you'd probably need to combo of Mind (for the temenos) Space (for the abduction and the altered location) and Matter/Life (in order to make a place where physical matter can exist). as to the badass monstrous form that would be either Life 3-5 (depending on how badass we're talking) or mind just Mind (if it's just your astral form). this becomes a great deal easier if a sanctum can be created in the astral plane but i'm not sure that's doable.

        Although if you're content inflicting psychic trauma just Mind [whatever] and Space 2 will be fine. actually i had the thought once of what a neat idea it would be if one beast tried to awaken another beast only for them to awaken as a mastigos mid hunt, i'd kind of like to see the effect on a beast who beheld pandemonium even if briefly

        Also remember that while mages are very powerful they can only maintain a few duration spells at a time safely without expending great resources or risking dangerous instability. So duplicating all these innate powers, while doable, would cut heavily into the number of spells they could otherwise use to protect themselves and their sanctums
        Last edited by Darkfoxdev; 04-17-2017, 08:05 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Darkfoxdev View Post

          this one's tricky, you'd need 3-5 Mind to manipulate the temenos into a lair (can you make a demesne in the temenos?) and then Space to be able to draw people into it, HOWEVER, i'm uncertain that a person can be physically drawn into the temenos by awakened magic. Now since beasts can do it that means it's Possible and thus doable but it may require some serious magic if it's not a normal thing that can be done with the astral plane, you'd probably need to combo of Mind (for the temenos) Space (for the abduction and the altered location) and Matter/Life (in order to make a place where physical matter can exist). as to the badass monstrous form that would be either Life 3-5 (depending on how badass we're talking) or mind just Mind (if it's just your astral form). this becomes a great deal easier if a sanctum can be created in the astral plane but i'm not sure that's doable.

          Also remember that while mages are very powerful they can only maintain a few duration spells at a time safely without expending great resources or risking dangerous instability. So duplicating all these innate powers, while doable, would cut heavily into the number of spells they could otherwise use to protect themselves and their sanctums
          A Sanctum or a Demesne ought to be doable in the Astral, a Mage's own Oneiros pretty much is a Demesne already in fact. Also, transporting someone's physical body to the Astral is possible, but comes with no upsides, which might be perfect if you're trying to emulate a Lair anyway (Not sure, only have a rudimentary understanding of Beast). Mind 4 +Life 4 should be able to convert you into a Mind compatible ephemeral form, from there Space should be able to teleport you or someone else into the Astral, though you may be able to cut out the Space bit if you use an Astral Verge or something.

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          • #20
            If you find an Astral Verge you could skip also Life and navigate there with some Mind 1 or Space 1. It will translate you without the need of magic but the thread is about using it so this solution is not working for it.
            After Patterning yourself with Life and Mind you should be able to meditate yourself entirely into Astral without the need of Space. Or use a spell to insert yourself into your own Oneiros. But honestly you could grant yourself just properties of Goetia and enter Astral with Mind/Life Weaving.

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            • #21
              Basically everything a vampire can do can be replicated using Life or Mind. However, is there anything in the mage repertoire that can replicate the first three dots of Auspex?

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              • #22
                Moving away from playable powers, what about an idigam's Forge Herald?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Urbenmyth View Post
                  Moving away from playable powers, what about an idigam's Forge Herald?
                  Forge Herald gives a lot of different, distinct powers. Spirit (maybe also needing Life) to give the target an essence pool/Numina, Space (and maybe Mind) to see through their eyes, and definitely Mind to communicate through your mind. Next up is essentially psychic domination or possession, both potentially needing Space for Sympathetic Range, and while you can't remove a werewolfs weakness to silver, you could just shield them from it.

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                  • #24
                    I don't know if it's still true, but I remember back before Mage 2e came out Dave said that the "Create Fetish" spell in the book doesn't let you create fetishes from the Werewolf book, you're limited to just the spirit's influences. That doesn't mean you cant creative thaumaturgy a version that does get you non-influence based fetishes though.

                    The most glaring limitation with Awakened magic that I've encountered is that you need archmastery to create magic that changes based on external stimuli. I'm pretty sure that there are things that are pretty easy to do with a computer program that either take the practice of dynamics or, possibly, an extravagantly trained entity created with mastery.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by solidork View Post
                      I don't know if it's still true, but I remember back before Mage 2e came out Dave said that the "Create Fetish" spell in the book doesn't let you create fetishes from the Werewolf book, you're limited to just the spirit's influences. That doesn't mean you cant creative thaumaturgy a version that does get you non-influence based fetishes though.
                      Create Fetish has an ambiguous wording that implies that it -might- be possible to create a Fetish that has more powers than just Influence.

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                      • #26
                        Spirit 's influences can do pretty much anything. Numinas are simply easier and cheaper.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                          Create Fetish has an ambiguous wording that implies that it -might- be possible to create a Fetish that has more powers than just Influence.
                          That's a very generous reading of the spell.

                          'Fetishes work like an Imbued Items, save that a fetish is powered by Essence and, instead of holding a Supernal spell, it holds one of the bound spirit’s Influences and, possibly, some of its Numina.
                          Creating a fetish requires that the spell have one Potency per dot of Influence the object will possess, plus one Potency per Numen.'

                          It seems pretty clear you either get Influences, Numen, or both. Or an Essence battery, mentioned later.

                          Back on topic.

                          What about Hide the Curse? A mage becomes a completely ordinary human without access to supernatural powers, passive or active, for a day.

                          Or Reconsolatio? Is there a way to pump a human's Integrity to 10 for the duration?

                          Unholy Avatar? When you die, you reincarnate in the body of a previously-prepared child.
                          Last edited by nofather; 04-18-2017, 05:09 PM.

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                          • #28
                            It's pretty clear to me that you can split potency between Influences and Numina. I literally cannot find a reason for blocking something like that.

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                            • #29
                              Hide the Curse should be doable with prime 3 or 4 and targets consent.
                              Reconsolation - maybe Mind(Death and Prime with a stretch)at 3 dots?
                              Unholy Avatar is a Death 4 effect for me. In 1e you could trade your death for someones life.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by solidork View Post
                                The most glaring limitation with Awakened magic that I've encountered is that you need archmastery to create magic that changes based on external stimuli. I'm pretty sure that there are things that are pretty easy to do with a computer program that either take the practice of dynamics or, possibly, an extravagantly trained entity created with mastery.
                                Well, look at that. It seems like the Free Council does have a point.

                                Hide the Curse could also be done with Time - pull an alternate present version of the target which never got supernatural powers in the first place.

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