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What have you done with the New Tremere?

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  • What have you done with the New Tremere?

    I'm looking at doing something with the Tremere (as presented in Left Hand Path and Dave's subsequent posts here and about) and I'm curious to know what others have done with them.

    They're a fairly enticing antagonist group - especially now that they've been promoted all the way up to "Former Pentacle Order", and all the baggage that comes with that for both them and for any pentacle mages who come into conflict with them.

    My plan is to use a single small House as a primary antagonist group in an upcoming chronicle (2E) set in the 18th Century Caribbean, so I'm especially interested in any custom Houses you may have developed, both from a mechanics and background perspective.

    I'm looking for inspiration, tell me about your Liches!

    Edit: I say "new" - then I looked at my copy of Left Hand Path and realized it was published in 2012. Not exactly new then. Wow. Time flies.
    Last edited by Logocentric; 05-20-2017, 08:09 PM.

  • #2
    While I'm relatively new to ChroD and thus haven't yet had the chance to indulge in Left-Hand Path yet, I'm fond of this story hook found in the "Flayed Souls" setting of Beast The Primordial:


    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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    • #3
      I guess some questions for Dave regarding the Tremere in 2E if he's about:

      Does the Tremere template keep Wisdom or does it have a different morality stat?
      Is the Tremere template compatible with the Scelustus mechanics you've outlined previously (do they use Joining?)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Logocentric View Post
        I guess some questions for Dave regarding the Tremere in 2E if he's about:

        Does the Tremere template keep Wisdom or does it have a different morality stat?
        Is the Tremere template compatible with the Scelustus mechanics you've outlined previously (do they use Joining?)
        Pertinent.


        Resident Lore-Hound
        Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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        • #5
          This is all the information I've found that was given by the developer DaveB:


          DaveB wrote:

          It's possible what Tremere do to their soul and gnosis means they can't become archmages. I don't think we've said anywhere.

          Rather than being a Legacy that breaks almost every rule of Legacy design, they're a modified template like Mad Ones; Houses (like Nagaraja or Seo Hel) are the Tremere equivalent of Legacies, which have fewer Attainment slots. And then the Tremere organisation is also a Nameless Order.

          https://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...pagenumber=275


          My current plan for the Tremere is that they aren't a Legacy; they're a set of alterations to how Gnosis and Soul Loss work for a Tremere, and Houses are their Legacy-equivalents.

          http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...te-ideas/page7


          Yeah - in 2e, Tremere are a modified Template that alters how their Gnosis works and gives them their other powers like not-Torpor and burning the soul currently attached to them for life. The Houses are their equivalents of Legacies.

          http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...on-parts/page4


          Steal Body

          It is not one of the Death spells listed in 2e's core, but it's easy enough to convert. Eyeballing it, I would make Steal Body Death 5, Mind something rather than Life secondary - you anhilate the subject's soul and take their place, moving your mind across to the new body as well. Possibly even Death 5 Mind 5.

          http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ed-spell/page2


          When mages are Soulless, they lose Wisdom like a Sleeper loses Integrity. All spells cause Paradox, and they can't attempt to Contain it.
          When they're Enervated, they lose Gnosis along with Willpower. When they hit Thrall, even if they have Gnosis left over, they lose the ability to form imagos.
          If they get an Awakened soul, Gnosis dots come back 1/scene. If they get a Sleeper's soul, it comes back 1/chapter.
          You might have missed us saying it, but the stages of soul loss in second edition (much like the "what have you forgotten" and the "witnessig the supernatural" clauses of Integrity) were designed for Awakening 2e, then had the Mage stripped off them for God-Machine chronicle.

          http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ssovers/page13


          Circa 300 BCE: Tremere are small cult ( later Nameless Order ) that wander Europe beyond the Alexander Empire, keeping to themselves unless they need supplies or to replenish their numbers. They study the Subtle Arcana in search of the secrets of the soul, but they aren’t Reapers — not yet. They keep customs they believe date from before the Fall, and are most notable in this period for possessing a full command of High Speech. They can speak and write about any subject in that language or at least rumors says so. ( To The Strongest - Dark Eras, Nagaraja Legacy write-up )

          http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...-mage-timeline


          It's a parallel to Tremere, who in the protoype 2e notes replace their Gnosis with "Hollow", the trait that lets their Gnosis consume the soul currently attached to it as fuel, gives them Houses instead of Legacies, and so on. The Tremere are the most complex fallen mages because they're both an altered template , a group of not-exactly-Legacies and an Order, and it's figuring out what parts of them are inherent powers, what's the various Legacies they've consumed being turned into Houses, and what's the Tremere-Order-Status-only Merit equivalents to Egregore, etc that's the trick. But Tremere *do* use Wisdom.

          http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...radox-scelesti

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          • #6
            Curious. Tremere (and other reapers in general, I wonder?) are an altered template. Banishers really follow their own rules, at least they did in 1e, and that's kind of altered-template-like. Liches alter their bodies into other forms to be truly immortal, which is another template change. Scelesti tap into their own method of spellcasting - we havent' seen the full rules yet, just tainting spells, but its possible they'll have their own pseudo-template material as well.

            That pretty much just leaves Seers as the antagonists without special templtes. And, even then? Prelacies have their own thing going on that involves your very soul being reshapen. Food for thought on mage antagonist factions.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by MCN View Post
              Curious. Tremere (and other reapers in general, I wonder?) are an altered template.
              I'd guess that the overwhelming majority of Reapers outside the Tremere continue to use the normal mage rules. Just destroying a soul to gain a Yantra makes you a Reaper without having to go through the metaphysical Legacy-like changes that the Tremere does upon initiation.
              Last edited by Tessie; 05-23-2017, 01:27 PM.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • #8
                Well, I'm thinking more like the Timori and the Carnival. Not just someone who dips in. Someone dedicated.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MCN View Post
                  Well, I'm thinking more like the Timori and the Carnival. Not just someone who dips in. Someone dedicated.
                  Even dedicated Reapers could still use the common rules. We already have the historical Nagaraja in Dark Eras. They adopted the altered template once they joined the Tremere but they were certainly Reapers before that. The template-altering of the Tremere might very well be rediscovered or leaked to non-Tremere Reapers, but I have a feeling that's very rare.

                  It's also possible to be a Lich without altering your template, but I think that's far less common. The right Death, Life and Time spells/attainments should be able to get the job done without resorting to becoming a mage ghost/mage spirit/Morphean, but most Liches (especially those who are called Liches by their peers) are obsessed with cheating death and just having an indefinite spell cast on themselves might not be enough for them.

                  Originally posted by MCN View Post
                  Scelesti tap into their own method of spellcasting - we havent' seen the full rules yet, just tainting spells, but its possible they'll have their own pseudo-template material as well.
                  The last of RBAWintrow's links points towards a thread where Dave Brookshaw said that in his notes he had Scelesti, once properly initiated, replace their Wisdom trait with Joining. That's definitely an altered template.
                  Last edited by Tessie; 05-23-2017, 01:43 PM.


                  Bloodline: The Stygians
                  Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                  Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MCN View Post
                    Food for thought on mage antagonist factions.
                    We also have Mad Ones and Archmasters. Food for thought indeed.


                    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                    • #11
                      Not much. Only one's taken a part in any of my recent Chronicles, and that was only as an unseen backer of soul-stealing Spirit who paid him a tithe of Souls in exchange for the Essence needed to survive, and him not annihilating it.

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                      • #12
                        I had a minor Tremere villain early in my LA Mage game, who I used in a Hannibal Lecter sort of role. He'd been imprisoned as a scapegoat for a crime the PCs were investigating since the local Consilium wanted to take him down anyway, and he mostly sat quietly behind a Space ward, answered their questions, and tried to manipulate them into kicking off his escape plan. I used him to introduce some ambiguity and set the tone for the chronicle by talking about their grand Mysteries of the soul and the Sixth Watchtower, suggest that elder mages often work with the Tremere to achieve their goals, and put the PCs' personal Obsessions in context by showing how deep and strange the Awakened world is. I didn't really use mechanics for this, but he claimed that he'd helped their mentor steal and refine souls for her experiments with Sleepwalkers, since I liked the idea that the Tremere genuinely know more about souls than any other faction. It was fun to contrast stories of this ancient and feared magical society with their modern-day incarnation as a ragged Zodiac Killer type who'd been living in the shadows for years.


                        2E Legacy Updates
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                        Storm Keepers

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