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[2E] Two Spirits - Non-Binary Gender Legacy

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  • [2E] Two Spirits - Non-Binary Gender Legacy

    I want to create fan Legacy for all Non-Binary mage characters, based on Sleepers magcial practices. Around the globe, native cultures often have non-binary persona as rolę for magical practices or connection with Gods. See this article - http://www.teenvogue.com/story/gende...ound-the-world

    Now, we will go into Legacy idea. I only want to mark I'm cis małe bisexual bear, so if I make wrong assumptions, point me where. We have official Dakasha Ldgacy, but they connection with Nazis is probkematic to some traditions.

    My idea Legacy is called Two Spirits - name of Legacy is from Native American cultures, but it surely would work around the World. They would be Life/Mind Thyrsus mages, literally becoming other sex person. They would be mostly Nameless, but rise of Free Council and LGBT+ movement remade them in to centralized Libertine Legacy. So what do you think on this?


    My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
    LGBT+ through Ages
    LGBT+ in CoD games

  • #2
    Chrysalides are also non-binary.

    Princes of Masks aren't required to be anything except what they want to be.

    Etc.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
      So what do you think on this?
      I think this is a painfully wrongheaded and one-note application of a fiction widget revolving around Awakened development in support of a theory of magic or magical theory, particularly given that having a Shadow Name of a different sex or gender is something that happens often enough without characters building an entire magical praxis around that quality alone.

      You have Parent groups, Arcana, and an implicit idea for approximately one Attainment; nothing about this describes a doctrine or symbolset. There's no Legacy here. Get specific. Go more concrete.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • #4
        Non-binary gender isn't new for the Awakened. But when talking about Legacies, so far the ones that embrace non-binary gender tend to use it as a tool. The Daksha want to evolve beyond what current humanity is. The Chrysalides pursue their Ideal Form. The Princes of Many Masks are the ultimate Imposters. None of them are pursuing non-binary gender itself as a central Mystery, so if your Legacy is doing exactly that it certainly has a place to fit in.


        MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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        • #5
          Echoing Satchel's guidelines, I'd recommend the Legacy have theories and doctrine developed around liminality and liminal beings, with gender a focus to channel their symbols.


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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          • #6
            It's still using shape-shifting as a tool. Are non-binary people typically unhappy with being who they are? Trans people I get in those instances where they're stuck in the body of the wrong sex, but I was under the impression that non-binary covers a broader range of folks.

            I feel like Prime's evocation and enforcement of truth might be a viable route, less about changing yourself and more about changing the world to recognize your existence.

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            • #7
              Hamster, I dunno if you remember the Gay Entitlement thread from way back when or not. Sadly, with the archives gone, I can't refer you directly to it if you haven't.

              If you do remember, then my only advice is to think very hard on how people responded to that before preceding. Because this could very easily fall into the same trap of "organization of [x] being [x] in a tree" all over again.(x then being gay elves, x here being non-binary mages)


              Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
              The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
              Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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              • #8
                Lumping together every single non-Western gender-divergent identity under one umbrella and giving magical powers based on that smacks of painting with a ludicrously broad brush that erases the unique identity of all involved cultures and is uncomfortable close to "nonwhite/non-binary people are inherently magical!" Speaking of """native""" as some kind of broad shared identity between entirely unrelated peoples and their practices across all continents is the same thing that we all called bullshit back when it was called the Dreamspeakers in the 90s.

                If you wanna make a Legacy of people who use magic to be comfortable in their own skins, go right ahead. If you want to make one that borrows from Sleeper magical traditions practiced by a certain Native American (and it should be specific, not a vague "natives"), sure. But this as presented sounds doomed to offense.

                EDIT: You want a cool trans-inclusive Legacy idea? Make folks who want to rewrite their True Names.
                Last edited by atamajakki; 07-02-2017, 07:48 PM.


                Remi. she/her. game designer.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                  EDIT: You want a cool trans-inclusive Legacy idea? Make folks who want to rewrite their True Names.
                  That would be literally everyone. Nine times out of ten Real Name is a boulder on the mage's neck that does nothing but get you killed by a malicious Space specialist.

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                  • #10
                    It's a sympathetic name and not a real or true name for this precise reason.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                      Lumping together every single non-Western gender-divergent identity under one umbrella and giving magical powers based on that smacks of painting with a ludicrously broad brush that erases the unique identity of all involved cultures and is uncomfortable close to "nonwhite/non-binary people are inherently magical!" Speaking of """native""" as some kind of broad shared identity between entirely unrelated peoples and their practices across all continents is the same thing that we all called bullshit back when it was called the Dreamspeakers in the 90s.

                      If you wanna make a Legacy of people who use magic to be comfortable in their own skins, go right ahead. If you want to make one that borrows from Sleeper magical traditions practiced by a certain Native American (and it should be specific, not a vague "natives&quot, sure. But this as presented sounds doomed to offense.
                      Would the Legacy work as a group that isn't about labeling everyone else with Native American stuff, and instead about trying to spread the idea itself? I do agree on the pitfalls of lumping multiple cultures in a stereotype (as a Korean, I cringed when I heard stuff about Kuei Jin, Hengeyokai and Dreamspeakers)

                      EDIT: You want a cool trans-inclusive Legacy idea? Make folks who want to rewrite their True Names.
                      All mages already left their mark on the Supernal Realm they Awoke to, which became their True identity from that point onwards, Sleeper identity be damned. It's why mages appear as their self-image in the Astral, which can vary in race, gender/sex, and much more.


                      MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                        All mages already left their mark on the Supernal Realm they Awoke to, which became their True identity from that point onwards, Sleeper identity be damned. It's why mages appear as their self-image in the Astral, which can vary in race, gender/sex, and much more.
                        I believe Atamajakki talked about Sympathetic Name, which is the first name any person recognized as their own and there is no official way of actually changing.

                        Reminds me of a friend who, due to renaming laws here in Sweden, still has his deadname as a middle name while going by his new first name. Since that law was recently changed he's thinking about getting rid of his deadname completely. I'm guessing it's a bit like that for mages who are trans. They can choose sleeper name and Shadow Name, but they can't rid themselves of their unwanted Sympathetic Name even if nobody knows about it. What's even worse is that their Sympathetic Name might actually be extremely secure due to the whole process. That's got to be infuriating for those who wants nothing to do with their first/assigned identity.
                        Last edited by Tessie; 07-04-2017, 11:17 AM.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                          I believe Atamajakki talked about Sympathetic Name, which is the first name any person recognized as their own and there is no official way of actually changing.

                          Reminds me of a friend who, due to renaming laws here in Sweden, still has his deadname as a middle name while going by his new first name. Since that law was recently changed he's thinking about getting rid of his deadname completely. I'm guessing it's a bit like that for mages who are trans. They can choose sleeper name and Shadow Name, but they can't rid themselves of their unwanted Sympathetic Name even if nobody knows about it. What's even worse is that their Sympathetic Name might actually be extremely secure due to the whole process. That's got to be infuriating for those who wants nothing to do with their first/assigned identity.

                          Ah, I see. Then it becomes less about gender, and more about transcending past identities in general.


                          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                            I believe Atamajakki talked about Sympathetic Name, which is the first name any person recognized as their own and there is no official way of actually changing.

                            Reminds me of a friend who, due to renaming laws here in Sweden, still has his deadname as a middle name while going by his new first name. Since that law was recently changed he's thinking about getting rid of his deadname completely. I'm guessing it's a bit like that for mages who are trans. They can choose sleeper name and Shadow Name, but they can't rid themselves of their unwanted Sympathetic Name even if nobody knows about it. What's even worse is that their Sympathetic Name might actually be extremely secure due to the whole process. That's got to be infuriating for those who wants nothing to do with their first/assigned identity.
                            It's frustrated me for quite some time that a game where you rage against an oppressive Gnostic machine offers literally no canon way (short of Ascension) to transcend a label thrust upon you by others.


                            Remi. she/her. game designer.

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                            • #15
                              Isn't there an Imperial spell or something that can change your Sympathetic Name? I thought in 2e that is the current use of the term "True Name", that's the spell and/or term for after the spell is used.

                              I think Dave said that here on the forums somewhere.


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