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[2E Hack] No Instant Casting – For Crossover games

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  • [2E Hack] No Instant Casting – For Crossover games

    Idea I got from this topicHack on 2E Mage where you take out Instant Casting, completely. It’s made mostly to even crossover games with other monster splats, but it could also work if you want to run with much more ‘mages-as-researches’ idea. Still, it will need some changes to the parts of the game so here is topic for that.

    Opening problems with No Instant Casting Hack repercussions:
    1. Hung Spell from Time 2 seems to bypass it – you simply do D&D like ‘spell preparation’ of rituals in advance. Myself, I think it’s much less as a problem, because to have prepare spells with with Time 2, you still need to cast them in ritual in advance – and there is limited spells you can have over yourself, in the end.
    2. Adamantine Hand Merit is made obsolete by this Hack in the way it’s now written. Maybe to solve this with No Instant Casting it is to make Merit the way as another Hung Spells without Time 2 where Arrows can channel by their moves the spells they prepared before?
    Notice: If you think that Awakened have the powerlevel left as it is in 2E corebook when playing with other splats - it's clearly topic not for you, so better leave before making unnecessary bad blood.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 09-02-2017, 04:54 PM.


    My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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  • #2
    A less severe alternative would be to require 1 Reach per dot of Arcana in the spell for instant casting. Keeps the simple stuff instant-able, but anything more than apprentice level or so would cause nearly suicidal levels of Paradox.

    Potentially couple this with the inability to contain Paradox for extra fun.

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    • #3
      I'd deliberately have a few ways around it. Time 2's Hung Spell, yeah. I'd enable Praxis spells to be instant (instead of their usual benefit). Maybe allow certain Yantras to speed up spell casting to certain semioticly linked spells.

      Ritual casting would still be the norm, but there would be certain ways and circumstances you can get your typical Mage Duel.
      Last edited by Vent0; 09-02-2017, 04:07 PM.


      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by lnodiv View Post
        A less severe alternative would be to require 1 Reach per dot of Arcana in the spell for instant casting. Keeps the simple stuff instant-able, but anything more than apprentice level or so would cause nearly suicidal levels of Paradox.

        Potentially couple this with the inability to contain Paradox for extra fun.
        And/Or what about 1 Yantra bonus per dot of the Spell? Makes having the right items or circumstances really important. A magical tool lets you use the simple spells, sacraments become far more useful, and prepping the battlefield with the right environments becomes near life-or-death. The Muldra Yantra of Rotes becomes near the only way to get Master-level spells off in one Turn.
        Last edited by Vent0; 09-02-2017, 04:05 PM.


        Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
        Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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        • #5
          Or you can just give him high dots in occult and academics, coupled with a smart phone with Wi-Fi access and a large online library.

          Mage: ​"Give me 3 hours and I can ritually cast an unveiling spell to find out..."

          ​Cell Phone Guy: "Don't bother, I already Googled it and the answer is..."

          ​Take away instant casting, leaving only ritual, and until the Mage is god like in power he's the dead weight guy that Vampires kick around for...kicks.
          ​If the goal is just to limit the Mage's versatility, making him more like the Vampire, than you could limit instant casting to only Rotes & Praxis. That way he has a limited number of 'Disciplines' he can use in the moment while still leaving the potential for ritual casting things when time doesn't matter.
          It would make the Mage weaker than Vampires though, most Disciplines have constant costless effects where spells don't.

          ​If the goal is just to nerf Mages so Vampire/Werewolf/Hunter players will be happy that would probably do it and still leave the Mage a playable option.
          You could also just go back to playing D&D.

          My intent isn't to be confrontational, just pointing out that Mage versatility is what sets CoD apart from traditional Wizard games.
          Last edited by 2ptTakrill; 09-02-2017, 04:28 PM.

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          • #6
            I like the idea mentioned of doing this but allowing Praxes to be instant cast, letting that become their 'thing'. Makes mages more apt to actually buy a decent handful of them, and still makes them rather versatile but mostly in regards to preparation-based circumstances.

            One suggestion though would be to make ritual times go down a step. IE 1 hour at gnosis 1-2 instead of 3-4, etc. Since they'll be so much more reliant on them.



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            • #7
              Thirding the "praxes can be instant" idea. Maybe rotes too. And of course legacy attainments.

              Basically just give mages a small arsenal of purchased instant effects, and leave the more flexible improvised stuff to the long rituals.

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              • #8
                Are you serious, It would take 3 hours at Gnosis 1 or 2 to cast a spell in combat, I don't thing anyone will fall for the old "Wait for it, just Wait for it" gag. And while you are casting a spell for 3 hour 86 year old grandma is beating you to death with her cane. Mages are normal without magic. I thought the idea was to reduce them not handicap them. And before you say then do not go into battle before you have prepared the spells you need, you don't always have the choice. You can kiss all direct damage spells goodbye. Protection spells goodbye. This is not a good idea.

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                • #9
                  Yeah, a flat ban on instant casting strikes me as a bad idea. Your punishing players by making playing a mage much less fun without really achieving your ends of "balance." Indeed it strikes me that what your actually doing is incentivising some of the more "broken" tricks in a Mages playbook, namely setting up powerful long term buffs of the nature that no other Splat can really compare to. Tell me my Gnosis 2 Mastigos can't cast on the fly, and I will just throw on a daylong Incognito Presence instead, then proceed to murder everyone while they fail to recognise my existence.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh, there's another thing that needs to be addressed. The Time 4 attainment lets you spend mana instead of reach for instant casting. Even with the "purchased instant" tweak that's going to be severely underpowered compared to the others, and without it it'll be outright useless.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hardwire99, Katana1515, 2ptTakrill this is topic on Hack of the game – if you not agreeing with it’s POINT – ‘Making No Instant Casting balancing factor in crossovers’ – it’s better if you leave discussion, because:
                      1. It’s a Hack, if you do not like even basic idea of it – don’t use it, play vanilla game.
                      2. Saying ‘you should never, ever do it’ is thread-crapping – this topic is to hammer details for people WANTING to limit Instant Castings for crossover plays. If you are not agreeing with that statement, you know where topic exit is.
                      On the other hand, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is more than welcome. Like I will answer one just right now.
                      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 09-03-2017, 12:51 AM.


                      My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                      LGBT+ through Ages
                      LGBT+ in CoD games

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                      • #12
                        Answering some points raised:
                        1. Probably leaving Praxis as only Instant Casting is good idea – it would make them more sought out and not really breaking more mages than vampires are with their Disciplines chains. Interesting would also to leave as Instants the Legacy Attainments – then Praxis and Legacy would become REALLY big thing in game and mages would work much more like typical monsters from other splats – which is kind of point of this very topic.
                        2. I would miss the Rotes on Instant Casting – their ‘you cast as Master of Arcana’ thing is enough to make them working and interesting. Adding Instant Casting in mostly non-Instant setting would return us to classical Mage 2E situation that Rotes are more interesting than Praxes.
                        3. No combat magic because of no Instants & Adamantine Hand Merit – Yes, it’s a kind of point. I was thinking about letting easier Imbuing Items for storing spells to combat applications, but each combat spells you should cast ritually ‘in a free time’. This would also solve our Adamantine Hand Merit problem, as this Arrows ‘technique’ would let them to Imbue themselves with combat magic ahead of time. And remember that maybe Fireballs nicely lit your enemies, Sword with +5 Aggravated damage is even more better weapon then.
                        4. Long buffs and ‘perfect plans’ – Yes, it’s kind point of Hack to make mages prepare their rituals and ‘sitting’ on them. If you spend one day on ritual Incognito Presence to kill everyone, Katana1515 , in this time werewolves packs can 3 times raid your Sanctum or kidnap your close ones. It’s kind a point of this Hack idea. Remember, mages are planners in this take, other splats are monkey wrenches that will disrupts his plans.
                        5. Time 4 Attainment – Was there some ideas for ‘needed’ Time Attainment that did not got in to book? Something about dodging maybe?


                        My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                        LGBT+ through Ages
                        LGBT+ in CoD games

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          Answering some points raised:
                          1. Probably leaving Praxis as only Instant Casting is good idea – it would make them more sought out and not really breaking more mages than vampires are with their Disciplines chains. Interesting would also to leave as Instants the Legacy Attainments – then Praxis and Legacy would become REALLY big thing in game and mages would work much more like typical monsters from other splats – which is kind of point of this very topic.
                          2. No combat magic because of no Instants & Adamantine Hand Merit – Yes, it’s a kind of point. I was thinking about letting easier Imbuing Items for storing spells to combat applications, but each combat spells you should cast ritually ‘in a free time’. This would also solve our Adamantine Hand Merit problem, as this Arrows ‘technique’ would let them to Imbue themselves with combat magic ahead of time. And remember that maybe Fireballs nicely lit your enemies, Sword with +5 Aggravated damage is even more better weapon then.
                          3. Long buffs and ‘perfect plans’ – Yes, it’s kind point of Hack to make mages prepare their rituals and ‘sitting’ on them. If you spend one day on ritual Incognito Presence to kill everyone, Katana1515 , in this time werewolves packs can 3 times raid your Sanctum or kidnap your close ones. It’s kind a point of this Hack idea. Remember, mages are planners in this take, other splats are monkey wrenches that will disrupts his plans.
                          I think the Praxis and Legacy Attainments as instant casts is the only attractive thing about this setup.

                          I kind of agree with Katana. You're incentivising the old "ritual to win" stuff. If your rebuttal is "other splats can just destroy you while you're using your rituals," then what option do mages have? It's either ritual or nothing. ST basically grants you permission to cast a ritual and if he thinks it is going to be too OP he just throws a supernatural through the window to stop you.


                          I understand the intent, but I'm not seeing why you wouldn't just play a merit-based supernatural or Sleepwalker/Proximi. You'd have tons of options and limitations, and technically still be a "mage."


                          If someone picks up Mage the Awakening, why would they want to play Mage the Awakening: With Many Caveats and Restrictions?



                          I'm sure there are people that would enjoy this, like OP, but this really does feel like a cheeseburger with no cheese. The point being, you mean a hamburger?



                          I know your point is you can still use the versatile Mage system when casting ritual spells, but you have admitted that a lot of spells that benefit from being cast in the moment fly out the window. Still, you're keeping the ability to manipulate spell factors and whatever, but you also add that it can all be interrupted easily. What's the point of having all the freedom if it can easily be dismantled? Oh, but you can take precautions and prepare and plan! That doesn't do you any good if your preparing and planning for a confrontation needs to include planning and preparing for the planning and preparing.

                          "Everyone watch my back while I do stuff! - Or don't!"
                          "Okay!"
                          "All right, I'm done. - Or I'm dead!"

                          vs.

                          "I'm just gonna do stuff."
                          "Sounds good."



                          Anyway, even though I disagree with it, the Praxis and Legacy Attainments w/ instant cast would warm me up to the idea. I'd probably still rather play a badass merit-based supernatural that could whip my "Mage's" ass in short order.


                          N/A

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                          • #14
                            If you cannot digest idea of mages being 'super thaumaturgist', this hack is not for you.

                            Remember, even with 'No Instant Casting beside Praxis and Attainments' sorcerers are still SUPERB thaumaturgist or medium.

                            Second Sight characters: 'Oh, I can only cast one of 3 spells I know.'

                            Awakened on this Hack: 'Let me show you all the rituals I know now from Matter or Death Arcana...'

                            AND still mage would have those special Praxis and Legacy Attainments he specialized with to Instant Cast.
                            Last edited by wyrdhamster; 09-03-2017, 05:37 AM.


                            My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                            LGBT+ through Ages
                            LGBT+ in CoD games

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                              Hardwire99, Katana1515, 2ptTakrill this is topic on Hack of the game – if you not agreeing with it’s POINT – ‘Making No Instant Casting balancing factor in crossovers’ – it’s better if you leave discussion, because:
                              1. It’s a Hack, if you do not like even basic idea of it – don’t use it, play vanilla game.
                              2. Saying ‘you should never, ever do it’ is thread-crapping – this topic is to hammer details for people WANTING to limit Instant Castings for crossover plays. If you are not agreeing with that statement, you know where topic exit is.
                              On the other hand, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is more than welcome. Like I will answer one just right now.
                              My bad I thought you wanted all opinions not just those that agreed with you, The only reason I am in this thread a second time is because YOU messaged me, don't call out my name and I won't be back.

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