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  • Well, "Shifting the Odds" is a Fate 2 spell that can give you a merit for a brief period of time.


    Check my homebrews:
    Vampire Bloodlines: Kiasyd
    Mage Legacies: Infernal Ones, Daoine

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    • Yeah it's kind of all over the place, and then Allies requires Mind 5 so its really all oooover the place. My ST is saying that I would need Mind 5 to get a werewolf into the anima mundi but since they can dream into it by chance anyway I was really confused why it would be Mind 5...

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      • Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post

        Not everything fits.

        He would be have to deal with Sympathetic Range Withstand, not Sympathetic Connection Withstand since he's affecting a thing via Sympathy, not affecting the Sympathy itself. Also, Mages only have a Weak Sympathetic Connection to their own spells.
        (I kinda knew they wouldn't all fit...but) Is that then mechanically like the worlds collide 1e spell? Or 2e's collapse spell? Or only the first people hit with the spell get ported the rest dont?

        I keep forgetting both types of sympathy and call them both the same thing, yep so i did mean the range withstand and its actually the first example ive seen with mages sympathy to their own spells. I was assuming that the maaster would spend some time in the realm to increase his sympathy but thats a bad idea, a weak connection is still well within his base potency though anyways making it trivial. The target getting no real option to save himself just seems so good, as long as you win initative, that other master is gone and cant do anything until you end the pocket realm. scary scary stuff, im sure there are other ways masters of other arcana can ruin another masters day but id need to think of them that are as easy. Technically doesnt even need to be your own pocket realm, you just need good sympathy to the frozen time prison realm and have teleport and you remove problem people really easily.
        Last edited by totalgit; 04-17-2017, 02:56 AM.

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        • Originally posted by totalgit View Post
          totalgit

          Spells dont stack like what?, if multiple spells of different potency are cast on somebody then only the highest potency takes effect the others are suppressed. Im asking at what point do you check the potency for this, since if its after the withstand rating has lowered a spells potency since that is what withstand does, then its possible the spell might start with the same potency but after being withstood now has a different maybe higher than a previous spells potency.

          What is the potency of the spell it starts at 4 but gauntlet 3 withstand lowers it to 1, is it 4 or 1? Its a potency 1 spell since it lowered the gauntlet by 1 right? the next potency 4 spell cast becomes potency 2 since the withstand is now 2, theres no stacking involved as this higher potency takes effect...i cant be clearer really.

          I know spells dont "stack" but casting multiple spells with a potency each higher than the last (which my example shows happens if you check for spell stacking after withstand) would work.

          Sorry i sometimes feel like im in a maths class, people reply on this forum "thats not how it works" but dont show any of their workings....
          It's easier to say to check before Withstand is applied, in the cases where both spells faces Withstand. Otherwise look at both spells without taking into account the other spell. Which spell would have more Potency in the end? That spell applies.

          But in your example it doesn't really matter when you check which spell has more Potency since once one spell is applied the first stops applying so that the second spell will face the original Withstand rating anyway. So in your example the second Potency 4 spell would still face Gauntlet Strength 3 because it suppresses the first spell.

          Edit: About trying to cram too much into a too small space, you could just limit the spell to not working unless you take such factors into account. Co-location requiring all linked locations to be of the same size, and Teleportation to require all subjects to have unique destinations or both locations for AoE castings to have the same size.
          Last edited by Tessie; 04-17-2017, 05:25 AM.

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          • Originally posted by Tessie View Post


            But in your example it doesn't really matter when you check which spell has more Potency since once one spell is applied the first stops applying so that the second spell will face the original Withstand rating anyway. So in your example the second Potency 4 spell would still face Gauntlet Strength 3 because it suppresses the first spell.
            The second spell will only face the original withstand if withstand gets reassessed when the first spell is suppressed, and if reassessing withstand then 1 casting of potency 4 will lower it to 0 anyways.

            Gauntlet 3. First spell has potency 4 vs withstand of 3 leaving it with a potency of 1.
            Gauntlet is now 2. Withstand 2. (withstand should be reassessed here and recur down to zero but if we say spells dont count themselves we continue)
            Second spell has potency 4 vs withstand of 2 leaving it with a potency of 2.
            Gauntlet is now 0,Withstand is 0, Withstand has changed via a different spell so First spell gets reassessed with new withstand becoming potency 4 vs withstand 0 lowers gauntet to 0/withstand to 0, Second spell gets suppressed but then reassessed also becoming potency 4.
            First spell then gets suppressed since its same potency as second spell now, Second spell is still potency 4 vs withstand 0 ? Gauntlet remains 0?

            My head hurts....

            Nope....withstand is checked when a spell is cast. If if changes later, tough....thats what im doing...
            Last edited by totalgit; 04-17-2017, 06:51 AM.

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            • Haha my bad for thinking this was "a simple question"

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              • Do you need to spend a full turn worth of action (as in, "mechanical" instant action) to use Precise Force attainment? How do you trigger/use it?
                As a secondary question, anyone got any experience with this attainment and seeing it in actual play? It's one of these things that looked cool to us on paper, but haven't been used because action economy is a harsh queen and it's restrictions are...very restricting. Gives Obrimos the short stick for the 2nd dot attainments, I feel.

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                • Originally posted by WHW View Post
                  Do you need to spend a full turn worth of action (as in, "mechanical" instant action) to use Precise Force attainment? How do you trigger/use it?
                  As a secondary question, anyone got any experience with this attainment and seeing it in actual play? It's one of these things that looked cool to us on paper, but haven't been used because action economy is a harsh queen and it's restrictions are...very restricting. Gives Obrimos the short stick for the 2nd dot attainments, I feel.
                  Well, I saw a player use this as a sort of "Iron Fist" escaping the jail thing. He just blew the door open with Precise Force and a kick, since an Attainment is similar to a spell but don't follow the same rules, we play as it not triggering Paradox/Quiescence/etc.


                  Check my homebrews:
                  Vampire Bloodlines: Kiasyd
                  Mage Legacies: Infernal Ones, Daoine

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                  • Which arcanum actually has Resonance in its purview?

                    The 2E core rules lists Prime as the arcanum for Resonance; Spirit has Essence. But if you just search for "Resonance" in the rules, it's really muddled. Just look at the Active Mage Site arcana-specific effects for one example. It almost seems like when you're wondering which arcanum is appropriate for working with Resonance, it depends on the Practice you intend to use.

                    I just want to make a custom legacy that's focused on Resonance, where every attainment does something with Resonance: perceiving it, hiding it, bolstering it, changing it. Which arcanum is primary for that legacy?

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                    • I think you're mixing up the Leyline/Node type of Resonance (Prime), and the Resonant Condition (Spirit). There's some overlap (the presence of one type of Resonance can very well create the other), but they're fundamentally separate things.

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                      • Asking this here since I did not want to make a whole thread just for a silly question of mine:

                        I want to improve my knowledge and understanding of Mage. It's a line I like but I always feel like I never really did my homework when it comes to it. My ideas about the setting tend to not be true more often than not, so it's rather blatant there's much I need to read. No idea where to start. The books I actually read are the Cores, Intruders, The Free Council One and Left-Hand Path.

                        Which ones you'd suggest me to read and why? Or in which order, if you think that could help. Quite an open question, I know.

                        EDIT: If you think this should belong to a thread of its own instead of here, I'll create it
                        Last edited by Cinder; 04-17-2017, 03:26 PM.


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                        • Originally posted by Cinder View Post
                          Asking this here since I did not want to make a whole thread just for a silly question of mine:

                          I want to improve my knowledge and understanding of Mage. It's a line I like but I always feel like I never really did my homework when it comes to it. My ideas about the setting tend to not be true more often than not, so it's rather blatant there's much I need to read. No idea where to start. The books I actually read are the Cores, Intruders, The Free Council One and Left-Hand Path.

                          Which ones you'd suggest me to read and why? Or in which order, if you think that could help. Quite an open question, I know.

                          EDIT: If you think this should belong to a thread of its own instead of here, I'll create it
                          Tomes of mysteries while 1e has alot of stuff in it, but the 2e version is coming soon so alot of info might be moot, also Imperial Mysteries is worth a read, it'll help explain the supernal alot more.

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                          • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                            I think you're mixing up the Leyline/Node type of Resonance (Prime), and the Resonant Condition (Spirit). There's some overlap (the presence of one type of Resonance can very well create the other), but they're fundamentally separate things.

                            Haha really? Why would they overload a term like that? Particularly when they have the same effect -- the section on leylines and nodes mentions about how Spirits interact with that resonance in the exact same way the interact with resonance elsewhere in the world ("Finally, Resonance generates Essence that spirits at the roots of the Shadow’s ecology devour"). That's bizarre. I'm just going to stay away from that.

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                            • I see the source of your confusion. I'd be confused as well if I hadn't been familiar with spirit rules before reading that section. I think it's a classic example of the writer knowing exactly what they mean, but not realising it's not as obvious to the reader.
                              Anyway, that's what I meant by overlap. Leyline Resonances are one of many sources of Resonant Conditions, which in turn generates Essence. In practice it does mean Leyline Resonances generates Essence; they just omitted one of the steps in how it does that.

                              Edit: It's not all that rare that the same terms are used for different things between gamelines. This might be one of those times.
                              Last edited by Tessie; 04-17-2017, 05:40 PM.

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                              • Cinder, I recommend you read as many of the source books for the diamond orders as you can manage. Each of them provides a perspective on the journey of a mage from pre-Awakening through seniority in an order. For me, those books gave me valuable information on story context, NPCs, and story hooks. Also they're just great reads. The Silver Ladder goes from "Wow these guys are principled leaders" to "Wow these guys are as alien and scary as the old Vampire Antideluvians." It was a trip! I know you read Free Council, but the books for the diamond orders are just better in my opinion.

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