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  • Yet it would answer many questions that are dubiously explained, or not even explained at all. Besides, nothing wrong with making things clearer even if it's just the reader who's misunderstood something.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke

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    • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
      Yet it would answer many questions that are dubiously explained, or not even explained at all. Besides, nothing wrong with making things clearer even if it's just the reader who's misunderstood something.
      Yeah, it can’t hurt, but I think there are some unrealistic expectations for it.

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      • How obvious is "obvious" when doing magic in front of Sleepers, and does context matter? Or, to put it differently, how much real magic could a stage magician get away with?

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        • Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
          How obvious is "obvious" when doing magic in front of Sleepers, and does context matter? Or, to put it differently, how much real magic could a stage magician get away with?
          Quite a bit.

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          • Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
            How obvious is "obvious" when doing magic in front of Sleepers, and does context matter? Or, to put it differently, how much real magic could a stage magician get away with?

            There is obvious stage magic and then theres obvious supernal magic. You could teleport your assistant hidden behind a curtain and folk would consider that just stage magic but if you did it right in front of people without a curtain then its obvious its supernal.

            I think its probably as very thin line to start walking, you only need one person to properly doubt your stage magic and paradox comes a calling. Whats obvious magic may differ depending on the context and person so its probably quite risky. Even in a crown of a hundred, one doubter could give you that paradox dice instead of the 8 again paradox dice you'd get if all 100 people were doubters?

            Im not really sure how it works, do all sleepers need to think its obvious or only afew in a group? What sort of stage magic are you thinking supernal magic could cover? Mind could easily pull of psychic type acts etc..

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            • Maybe if another stage magician or any one acquainted with the "craft" were in the audience I'd made them roll to notice that none of the usual tricks would work and what he saw was the real deal, and thus create Paradox. Otherwise, I think you would be fine.

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              • I suggest Manipulation + Expression and similar rolls (with appropriate modifiers depending on the size of the crowd, improbability of the act, and tools of distraction) to avoid Paradox.


                Bloodline: The Stygians
                Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke

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                • This is an awesome question, as one of my players just made a stage magician character.

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                  • Postcognition: Do you think it's a valid Time 1 Knowing spell to ask "When precisely did this subject's Temporal Sympathy change?

                    For instance, the car was parked on the street and you want to know what time it left so that you can Postcog to see it leave.

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                    • Originally posted by Johnny Awesome View Post
                      Postcognition: Do you think it's a valid Time 1 Knowing spell to ask "When precisely did this subject's Temporal Sympathy change?

                      For instance, the car was parked on the street and you want to know what time it left so that you can Postcog to see it leave.
                      The answer is yes to the question, no to the example as the car isn’t there to be cast upon.

                      Also, as an aside, the presence of a car on a street is likely insignificant enough to the street that the car arriving and leaving is likely in its Unchanged Past.

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                      • Ok. But I meant casting with the street as the subject really.

                        If the car leaving is insignificant then how would you cast the spell to find out when the car left?

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                        • Originally posted by Johnny Awesome View Post
                          Ok. But I meant casting with the street as the subject really.

                          If the car leaving is insignificant then how would you cast the spell to find out when the car left?

                          You'd need to watch the street via postcognition and have enough duration to see the car leave? For a knowing spell spell if your targeting the streets sympathy and asking "when did X car leave" the likely reply/answer vis knowing is "Didnt notice" as cars entering/leaving dont change its temporal sympathy.

                          But yes, you should be able to just know when a car left by being at the location the car was at, however trying to gain knowledge via magic and asking when a car left you might get given the answer when all cars left that spot back to the sympathy changed? You'd need to maybe narrow down the time and if you are doing that anyway its easier just to postcog it anyways.
                          Last edited by totalgit; 12-29-2017, 10:53 PM.

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                          • Not asking whether it's a good idea, or whether it'd be something a PC would ever meet.

                            But if Ghost Mages exist? In theory could a Ghost Archmage or something freaky like that exist? I mean, obviously if it existed it'd be bad news.

                            Edit: To clarify, I'm speaking in a metaphysical sense, not in some, "Is it balanced/sane" sense.

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                            • Originally posted by The_Laurent View Post
                              Not asking whether it's a good idea, or whether it'd be something a PC would ever meet.

                              But if Ghost Mages exist? In theory could a Ghost Archmage or something freaky like that exist? I mean, obviously if it existed it'd be bad news.

                              Edit: To clarify, I'm speaking in a metaphysical sense, not in some, "Is it balanced/sane" sense.
                              Sure, that could exist.

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                              • Originally posted by The_Laurent View Post
                                Not asking whether it's a good idea, or whether it'd be something a PC would ever meet.

                                But if Ghost Mages exist? In theory could a Ghost Archmage or something freaky like that exist? I mean, obviously if it existed it'd be bad news.

                                Edit: To clarify, I'm speaking in a metaphysical sense, not in some, "Is it balanced/sane" sense.
                                That's tricky. The Archmage would have to:
                                1. Die
                                2. Have unfinished business
                                3. Not be utterly annihilated without a trace
                                While 2) is completely trivial, iirc Archmasters have pretty good protection from 1), and any entity capable of 1) is likely to prevent 3).


                                Simurgh, Mysterium Thyrsus in Mountains of Shadow (IC|OOC)

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