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  • Originally posted by Scarlet Witch View Post

    Woah woah I am way behind it seems! Other than archmages and even then I thought people were against it... since when was template stacking tolerated/allowed? Whats the sources on this?

    Sorry for quoting an old post but this is very valuable to me
    The source is that there is no explicit rule against template stacking in most cases, but all major templates are still intended to be unstackable afaik. Mostly it's just minor templates that can be stacked, such as Wolf-Blooded.

    Edit: Turns out this was an old tab I had opened almost two hours ago, so I'm a bit late to the party.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • How do you determine the strength of a Paradox Condition when paradox is released? Is it just how many successes were rolled by the paradox?

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      • Originally posted by Yelesom View Post
        How do you determine the strength of a Paradox Condition when paradox is released? Is it just how many successes were rolled by the paradox?
        You do not generate a Paradox Condition when a Paradox is released.

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        • Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post

          You do not generate a Paradox Condition when a Paradox is released.

          The paradox reach options allow you put a Condition on the subject of the spell.
          I assumed it would be a Paradox Condition, though I may be mistaken?

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          • Originally posted by Yelesom View Post
            The paradox reach options allow you put a Condition on the subject of the spell.
            I assumed it would be a Paradox Condition, though I may be mistaken?
            It doesn’t say it’s a Paradox Condition, just a Condition. You could use a Paradox Condition I suppose, but I wouldn’t unless it was being inflicted by a Scelesti or was good for the story. Most subjects of a Mage’s spell won’t be able to resolve a Paradox Condition, or be adversely affected by it being there or allowing it to lapse.

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            • Originally posted by Yelesom View Post


              The paradox reach options allow you put a Condition on the subject of the spell.
              I assumed it would be a Paradox Condition, though I may be mistaken?

              The likely intent is any suitable Condition, as long as it represents how badly the Paradox'ed spell is screwing around with the subjects.


              MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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              • Would a spell to manipulate currents and waves be Matter (as with Shaping) or Forces (as with Control Weather)?

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                • Originally posted by LadyLens View Post
                  Would a spell to manipulate currents and waves be Matter (as with Shaping) or Forces (as with Control Weather)?
                  Either could work. Matter would just move the water itself, Forces would manipulate Gravity, which would move the water (and everything else) as it does. Time might even be able to adjust the "now" to high or low tide (though not much else).


                  Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                  Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                  • Can you stick a ghost in a Soul Jar?

                    My first instinct would be "no", because 1. ghosts aren't actually souls, 2. what's to keep a mage with only Death 2 from ending all ghost fights in one Clash of Wills -- Command Ghost, "get your dead ass in this here jar?"

                    But the Gaolers of Ialdabaoth in Grimoire of Grimoires are explicitly called out as using their first attainment to prepare a vessel to bind a ghost or spirit "as through the use of a 'Soul Jar' spell", implying that you *can* trap a ghost in a Soul Jar.

                    (That, and if Soul Jar isn't the spell for trapping a ghost or spirit so it won't cause any trouble, what *is*? Bind Spirit and Transfer Anchor let you trap an entity in a given place, but they're still free to make trouble as much as their new lodging allows, you can't just stick then in a box and have done. Create Fetish is overkill -- I'm just looking for a way to *trap* ghosts and spirits in convenient objects, not gain access to their Numina.)

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                    • Strictly, Soul Jar can't trap a ghost. However, a "Trap Ghost" spell would, in all likelihood, be mechanically identical to Soul Jar. And yes, this means that a mage can end a ghost fight with a Clash of Wills. I do not see a problem with this; I loathe the idea that it's somehow fundamentally wrong for a magician to be able to solve a problem with magic, especially if it's a problem that in fiction and folklore is best solved with magic. For a specific example, banishing spells in Exalted are supposed to be off-limits because they "limit the story potential of demons," which results in the world's greatest experts on demonology, masters of all magics, who wield the powers of the unknown, the unseen, the occult and the ghostly, having exactly no options for dealing with demons that anybody else can't employ, and probably better. If you want to create an effective demon hunter in that game, the list of useful abilities doesn't even include Occult. I wish I were joking.

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                      • Originally posted by Kerredai View Post
                        Can you stick a ghost in a Soul Jar?

                        My first instinct would be "no", because 1. ghosts aren't actually souls, 2. what's to keep a mage with only Death 2 from ending all ghost fights in one Clash of Wills -- Command Ghost, "get your dead ass in this here jar?"

                        But the Gaolers of Ialdabaoth in Grimoire of Grimoires are explicitly called out as using their first attainment to prepare a vessel to bind a ghost or spirit "as through the use of a 'Soul Jar' spell", implying that you *can* trap a ghost in a Soul Jar.

                        (That, and if Soul Jar isn't the spell for trapping a ghost or spirit so it won't cause any trouble, what *is*? Bind Spirit and Transfer Anchor let you trap an entity in a given place, but they're still free to make trouble as much as their new lodging allows, you can't just stick then in a box and have done. Create Fetish is overkill -- I'm just looking for a way to *trap* ghosts and spirits in convenient objects, not gain access to their Numina.)
                        Gaolers of Ialdabaoth is 1e, and so in 2e, no Soul Jar isn't sufficient to trap a ghost. You could use Command Ghost to tell a ghost to get into a jar, but it would suffer Essence bleed if you moved it too far from its Anchor. Your best solution with just Command Ghost to trap a ghost it to simply command it to stay where it is, and to not use its powers.

                        Gaolers of Ialdabaoth in 2e, may have a unique attainment that allows them to bottle ghosts, but it's going to have to be at least their 2nd attainment, and to justify that level of power will probably have to have restrictions that justify it being able to work.

                        ​As LadyLens said there's nothing wrong with a Mage winning a fight simply by winning a CoW. Speaking from personal experience too, you are not guaranteed to win in a CoW. I rolled off against a goetia that had one die less than me and sure, they got lucky, but they tore right through my defense which was enough for a K.O.

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                        • It's very easy to bottle a ghost - you use Death to force them into the Fetter Manifestation.


                          Dave Brookshaw, freelance writer and Developer

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                          • Originally posted by Dave Brookshaw View Post
                            It's very easy to bottle a ghost - you use Death to force them into the Fetter Manifestation.
                            That's not the same as trapping it inside the bottle, though. The ghost will still be free to exit the bottle and otherwise act freely in Twilight so long as it stays within 5 yards of the bottle.

                            The Gaolers' first attainment is already not clear on its own mechanics. It could be read as to imply that the trapped beings are dormant while within, but that's far from explicit. Maybe the attainment's effect can be reproduced by a +1 (+2?) Reach ability on the regular Soul Jar spell? Or would it be better to have it be a totally different spell instead?

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                            • Originally posted by Obsidian Pharaoh View Post
                              That's not the same as trapping it inside the bottle, though. The ghost will still be free to exit the bottle and otherwise act freely in Twilight so long as it stays within 5 yards of the bottle.

                              The Gaolers' first attainment is already not clear on its own mechanics. It could be read as to imply that the trapped beings are dormant while within, but that's far from explicit. Maybe the attainment's effect can be reproduced by a +1 (+2?) Reach ability on the regular Soul Jar spell? Or would it be better to have it be a totally different spell instead?
                              Dave is pretty much right though, one, the entity has a very limited amount of freedom of movement, and two the entity isn't allowed to use any of its powers except on the Fetter which is probably the bigger concern. The real problem is that not every ghost is going to have the Fetter Manifestation, and for those exceptions you'd need to rewrite them with Death 4.

                              I wouldn't allow Soul Jar to capture ghosts though, souls and ghosts are explicitly different so a spell designed to affect one probably shouldn't be able to affect the other. In fact, Soul Jar only works because souls are supposed to be inside a container in the first place and the magic is being used to confuse that naturally occurring mechanism.

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                              • Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                                The real problem is that not every ghost is going to have the Fetter Manifestation, and for those exceptions you'd need to rewrite them with Death 4.
                                Can you even activate an ephemeral entity's own Manifestations? The normal way of making ephemeral entities Manifest through spells is by applying Manifestation Conditions on them regardless of what Manifestations they have access to. For this specific example it would be the Revenant spell, with 3 Potency to apply Anchor and Open on the intended "ghost jar" and Fettered on the ghost.


                                Bloodline: The Stygians
                                Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                                Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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