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  • Quick reminder: why is it that using adamantine hand as a yantra allows a person to keep their defense while casting in combat? I can't remember the reasoning.

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    • Originally posted by Falcon777 View Post
      Quick reminder: why is it that using adamantine hand as a yantra allows a person to keep their defense while casting in combat? I can't remember the reasoning.
      You've misread. You always get to keep your Defense when casting spells. What Adamant Hand does is allow you to attack during a turn you're casting a spell


      Bloodline: The Stygians
      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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      • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
        You've misread. You always get to keep your Defense when casting spells. What Adamant Hand does is allow you to attack during a turn you're casting a spell
        You are also wrong.

        Adamant Hand allows you to reflexively add successes on an attack the attack as an order tool to a spell you cast on a subsequent turn. If the spell is reflexive you can use the merit for that spell as well, but reflexive spells can always be cast the same turn you make an attack.

        Falcon777
        Last edited by proindrakenzol; 02-04-2019, 07:12 PM.


        Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology; Priests of the Watchful Eternity - a 2e Silver Ladder Moros Legacy (Life/Death) of Mages that enhance Mortals to fight strange entities

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        • Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post
          You are also wrong.
          "Mages taking multiple turns to cast a spell (usually because
          they are utilizing Yantras or spending more Mana than their
          Gnosis allows) still apply Defense against attacks but may not
          make combat actions unless another rule such as the Adamant
          Hand Merit allows it."

          I am correct even if I didn't go into the particulars of Adamant Hand.

          Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post
          Adamant Hand allows you to reflexively add successes on an attack to a spell you cast on a subsequent turn. If the spell is reflexive you can use the merit for that spell as well, but reflexive spells can always be cast the same turn you make an attack.
          Adamant Hand serves as an Order tool Yantra that is used reflexively the same turn you use the chosen Skill to attack. That means the attack does happen during the casting time of the spell (as turns spent adding Yantras are part of the spell casting action) regardless of whether the spell casting roll is made during that or subsequent turns.

          Additionally, the text for Adamant Hand is often misunderstood due to how vague it is, but generally people misread it to mean it grants the chosen Skill dot rating as a bonus. The actual bonus is the +1 that all Tool Yantras add (unless stated otherwise in their specific rules).


          Bloodline: The Stygians
          Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
          Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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          • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

            "Mages taking multiple turns to cast a spell (usually because
            they are utilizing Yantras or spending more Mana than their
            Gnosis allows) still apply Defense against attacks but may not
            make combat actions unless another rule such as the Adamant
            Hand Merit allows it."

            I am correct even if I didn't go into the particulars of Adamant Hand.
            No, you are wrong, that section specifically deals with spells that are cast over multiple turns. So if I'm casting a spell over four turns (because I'm incorporating multiple yantras) and have Adamant Hand I can spend one of those turns attacking to subsequently add the bonus to the spell casting roll if the spell being cast is an instant action.



            Adamant Hand serves as an Order tool Yantra that is used reflexively the same turn you use the chosen Skill to attack. That means the attack does happen during the casting time of the spell (as turns spent adding Yantras are part of the spell casting action) regardless of whether the spell casting roll is made during that or subsequent turns.

            Additionally, the text for Adamant Hand is often misunderstood due to how vague it is, but generally people misread it to mean it grants the chosen Skill dot rating as a bonus. The actual bonus is the +1 that all Tool Yantras add (unless stated otherwise in their specific rules).

            Actual text of the merit:

            Originally posted by Adamant Hand
            character has studied extensively in the Adamantine
            Arrow martial arts. This allows her to use combat
            techniques as Yantras for instant spells. When taking this Merit,
            choose Athletics, Weaponry, or Brawl, which your character
            must have three or more dots in. This Merit allows use of that
            Skill in combat as a reflexive Order tool Yantra, adding dice
            to a spell cast on subsequent turns, or to a spell cast reflexively
            in the same turn as the combat action. You may purchase this
            Merit multiple times to reflect the other styles.


            I don't know what you think subsequent means, but it does not mean the same turn.


            I thought I edited out the "add successes" bit, I typed that before rereading the merit and meant to delete it.


            Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology; Priests of the Watchful Eternity - a 2e Silver Ladder Moros Legacy (Life/Death) of Mages that enhance Mortals to fight strange entities

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            • It's talking about the final spellcasting action where you roll the dice pool. It's saying subsequent turn because an instant spell can't be cast the same turn you attack because you're not allowed to take more than one instant action each turn. It even specifies that reflexive spellcasting can be done during the very same turn.

              What I'm talking about, which should be abundantly clear if you read the text I originally quoted from the book, is the larger spellcasting action (of which the final spellcasting action is only a part) that incorporates all turns you spend incorporating Yantras. Yantras can only be applied while they exist/are being carried out, and the attack is reflexively used as a Yantra when you perform the attack. That means the attack is carried out during the first turn of the spell casting, just like it says in the text I quoted directly from the book.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • Can Adamant Hand accumulate ? So if you spent 4 turns dodging a rampaging werewolf while the party prepares some spells, can you then add +4 to an instant spell as a reflexive yantra or does it always stay as +1 ?


                New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


                The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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                • Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
                  Can Adamant Hand accumulate ? So if you spent 4 turns dodging a rampaging werewolf while the party prepares some spells, can you then add +4 to an instant spell as a reflexive yantra or does it always stay as +1 ?
                  "Subsequent turns," plural, suggests you could, space permitting, put four +1 Yantras toward an appropriate spell, bearing in mind that semiotics still apply.


                  Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                  Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                  • Fascinating, that is a pretty nice bonus indeed, wish there was a Firearms version, but I imagine that a sharpshooting Arrow can make up for it with a very mobile combat approach.


                    New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.


                    The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists

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                    • Last game I had an NPC want to refer to another mage's day-to-day non-mage identity but I couldn't really think of what terminology they'd use? Like a mage has their persona and their... I couldn't think of a good term for it.

                      Is there a term I've missed, or does anyone have any good ideas for a term?


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                      • There doesn't exist a term for it as far as I know so I would just go with "mundane persona" or something similar, depending on context.


                        Bloodline: The Stygians
                        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                          There doesn't exist a term for it as far as I know so I would just go with "mundane persona" or something similar, depending on context.
                          Thanks. That's more or less where I was going. I dunno, it just came up in a way that made it feel as if there should be some kind of regularised terminology.

                          Maybe Mundane Persona and Supernal Persona? That could work.


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                          • A heard that the Fluff of Awakening changed in 2 Edtion. Who did it change?

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                            • Atlantis is mostly just an accepted theory versus being a pretty concrete thing. Most mages have a combined belief that things were better sometime in the past with their own background. Meaning it is much more open for the ST to do whatever they feel fits best. I personally always considered it a theory myself and just used it to make some cool moments where the characters found relics that might have been from the fabled city.


                              "Teamwork makes the dream work!"

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                              • Not a theory, a myth.

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