Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ask a simple question, Awakened edition

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I don't think that Supernals even have Numina.

    Comment


    • They do not have Influences, Manifestations or Numina. It's all replaced by having two Arcana equal to Rank dots and sometimes additional Arcana at lower dot levels.


      Bloodline: The Stygians
      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

      Comment


      • Really? Thats a shocker... dang, I thought they did in 1e, was at least that true?

        I figured they still did because the book doesn't go out of its way to say they don't, it instead just doesn't list them as having them. I can see clearly where it verifies they lack manifestations so I guess it checks out... mmm.
        It would make sense though for them to lack numina after the sentence saying theyre not actually ephemera...

        But Im still disappointed.

        So yeah they can't summon themselves outside a verge I guess! They lack attainments or numina. No go...

        ((but Imma gonna homerule numina for player whee!))

        Comment


        • The fact that they have arcana kind of obviates the need for Numina. They do have their Boons though, which are about as close to Numina as they get I guess, but they can only use them under certain conditions.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
            The fact that they have arcana kind of obviates the need for Numina. They do have their Boons though, which are about as close to Numina as they get I guess, but they can only use them under certain conditions.
            Oh no its a plot hole for my game now. A supernal was summoned with painstaking research who would have a particular (and homeruled) numina.

            My player also really really likes his aether familiar who has(had) Awe. So its more of a personal problem. Definitely arcana are way better.

            Comment


            • I have 3 simple but important questions about the relationship between Arcana and Legacy Attainments:

              1. Can you use Arcana Attainments, if you possess them, while using your Legacy Attainments? For example, you use Matter Ruling to shape matter and instead of spending Reach to increase the duration, you spend Mana to do the same by activating the Matter 2 Lesser Utility Attainment.

              2. If you can, does the Mana spent count as Mana used in the Legacy Attainment and so is the subject to the 'Mana Break' rule of Legacies? The Mana Break rule states that if you would spend more than one Mana point on activating the Legacy Attainment, you only really spend one.

              3. Likewise if you can, can you gain the Arcanum Attainment after you learn the Legacy Attainment and still be able to use it in the Legacy Attainment? For example, you activate a Legacy Attainment after one scene of effort, but later learn Time 4 and can use the Time in a Bottle Greater Utility Attainment to activate the Legacy Attainment as an instant action.

              Comment


              • I second all those questions!!

                My guess is the maker needs the arcana attainment and programs it into the legacy attainment permanently so that using the legacy attainment always invokes the arcana attainment too. Because of this, the arcana attainment will need to be either the primary arcana or the additional-effect arcana. Like, no Time in a Bottle if Time isnt either of the legacies theme-arcana.

                THATS A GUESS and it supposes that adding attainents to attainments is even kosher. I don't know for sure, and I assume so because there is some extra wiggle room the Eleventh Question got. Its THE most obvious section of the book where that word limit hit haaard. A lot of nuance has to be grasped out of looking at the rules and the Eleventh Question and deciding if some of the contradictions are actually features.

                So theres my guesses but I am very invested in these questions please halp

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Prometheus View Post
                  I have 3 simple but important questions about the relationship between Arcana and Legacy Attainments:

                  1. Can you use Arcana Attainments, if you possess them, while using your Legacy Attainments? For example, you use Matter Ruling to shape matter and instead of spending Reach to increase the duration, you spend Mana to do the same by activating the Matter 2 Lesser Utility Attainment.

                  2. If you can, does the Mana spent count as Mana used in the Legacy Attainment and so is the subject to the 'Mana Break' rule of Legacies? The Mana Break rule states that if you would spend more than one Mana point on activating the Legacy Attainment, you only really spend one.

                  3. Likewise if you can, can you gain the Arcanum Attainment after you learn the Legacy Attainment and still be able to use it in the Legacy Attainment? For example, you activate a Legacy Attainment after one scene of effort, but later learn Time 4 and can use the Time in a Bottle Greater Utility Attainment to activate the Legacy Attainment as an instant action.
                  The answer to all of these questions is "no." Legacy Attainments are intentionally inflexible and, once learned, cannot be modified. When designing a Legacy that has a particular Arcana as a prerequisite it could be appropriate to incorporate an Arcana Attainment into the Legacy Attainment (especially in the case of Spatial and Temporal Sympathy), but I wouldn't do it for Legacies that do not include the Arcana from which the Arcane Attainment comes.


                  Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post

                    The answer to all of these questions is "no." Legacy Attainments are intentionally inflexible and, once learned, cannot be modified. When designing a Legacy that has a particular Arcana as a prerequisite it could be appropriate to incorporate an Arcana Attainment into the Legacy Attainment (especially in the case of Spatial and Temporal Sympathy), but I wouldn't do it for Legacies that do not include the Arcana from which the Arcane Attainment comes.
                    That would make sense, although I would still like to have some sort of an official ruling. I originally thought that you can't use Attainments at all, but if you *could* that would be potentially a huge deal for some Legacies.

                    On a different note, the primary and secondary spell factors in Legacy Attainments should be possible to use not at full strength, correct? That's because the strength of Attainments is not fixed, but increases with your knowledge of the relevant Arcana. So you shouldn't have to get, say, 5 automatic succeses as a Master, but could instead opt to just get 3, or to use the Attainment at Potency 2 instead of 5 (or 2 instead of 3 if it's a secondary spell factor). Increased knowledge of the Arcana should not prevent you from using Attainments as when your Arcana rating was lower.

                    Comment


                    • What kinda of magic would it take to force open an Iris? I think I’ve read it somewhere but not sure. In this case I’m mainly thinking of an existing Avernian gateway but also wondering about Iris in general.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Therian View Post
                        What kinda of magic would it take to force open an Iris? I think I’ve read it somewhere but not sure. In this case I’m mainly thinking of an existing Avernian gateway but also wondering about Iris in general.
                        It's a Weaving spell of the appropriate Arcanum, in this case Death.


                        Resident Lore-Hound
                        Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

                        Comment


                        • Another question, how do Goetia sustain themselves? It seem as though without having any Manifestations naturally they are limited to their Essence In hours to be about, but what does that mean to Mages that have summoned them?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Therian View Post
                            What kinda of magic would it take to force open an Iris? I think I’ve read it somewhere but not sure. In this case I’m mainly thinking of an existing Avernian gateway but also wondering about Iris in general.
                            And also the space spell correspondence let you know the iris key

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                              It's a Weaving spell of the appropriate Arcanum, in this case Death.

                              What makes you say it’s a weaving spell? Not disagreeing, just curious.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Therian View Post
                                What makes you say it’s a weaving spell? Not disagreeing, just curious.
                                Circa 2016:
                                Originally posted by Dave Brookshaw View Post
                                The basic rule of thumb is that Mage lumps any form of existing gateway together as an "Iris"; many require some specific means of opening them called a "key" in Mage-Lexicon, and opening one without the proper key is always a Weaving spell of the appropriate Arcanum.

                                Head to your nearest graveyard and pop open the Avernian gate? Death 3. Open a hole in the Gauntlet that only opens under a bood moon? Spirit 3. Make that alley that leads from New York to Chicago without having to circle the block three times clockwise? Space 3.


                                Resident Lore-Hound
                                Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X